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[Music]

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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well last week we debuted our second

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show called after the power cast and

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what that is is kind of a special

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wrap-up show or a show where we kind of

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sit back and

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take our shoes off and talk about

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anything under the sun and it's

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available strictly to people who

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subscribe to the powercast plus you

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of plus.powercast.com our main event

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there is the ad free version of the

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power cast and it's very cheap to

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subscribe five dollars a month

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equivalent to what a frappuccino or is

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that a small frappuccino chris

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anything in starbucks uh

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it's got to be a small

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cappuccino i think would be the

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appropriate term five bucks okay

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incredible all right

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certainly i think we're worth more than

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a frappuccino or whatever chris wants to

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call it or fifty dollars a year

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plus.thepowercast.com

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plus.theparacast.com

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and

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each week we can't tell you what's going

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to happen when we do after the power

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cast because we figure it out based on

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what the show is we're doing that

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particular week there we go you know

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just before we had our introduction here

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chris was getting a phone call and i

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noticed

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that his

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ringtone is jumping jack flash by the

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rolling stones

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now on my iphone my ringtone is hello

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goodbye by the beatles which i think is

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appropriate for a ringtone

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but i also wonder about the mindset why

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someone chooses one ringtone over

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another no psychic phenomena involved so

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chris has suggested to

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pick this thing at random or was there

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some feeling involved

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in choosing that particular ringtone

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well there's there's a bit of a story

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there gene i um i've been asked you know

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being a musician uh on and off for 30

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plus years i've

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you know invariably somebody will ask me

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what's your favorite song

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and i can never answer that because i

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have so many it you know kind of depends

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on my mood and then

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one day i think it was 2003

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um i was watching tv and i think it was

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a cadillac commercial i'm not sure but

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some car commercial came on

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and the background music was jumping

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jack flash and i went ballistic i went

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absolutely nuts and i i realized that i

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was so

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and

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to allow that song to be used for a

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commercial then all of a sudden i

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realized it was my favorite song

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so

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the short answer is it's my favorite

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and it took you what 30 years to figure

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this out

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yeah well i have lots of favorite songs

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um

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but

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that one i think is

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i would consider that my favorite song

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yeah

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i don't think hello goodbye is mine i

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think one of my favorite songs is

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while my guitar gently weeps the george

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harrison song for the beatles white

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album

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i think it's one of my favorites right

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there

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i think part of the reason is that i

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once played guitar many years ago in a

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far away galaxy so that's where that

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stands

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speaking of music by the way you did

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the themes that we're going to use for

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after the power cast and you gave me

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five

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and what we did last week is we used

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door number three

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of the five but if you go to our forums

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at

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forum.theparacast.com

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you can choose

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which theme you like best

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and then we'll use that for after the

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powercast we already have

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our introduction from

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our friend bob zanotti for that

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particular show after the paracast

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members of paracast plus

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also there is some discussion in our

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forums whether we should have

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a printed or written transcript of each

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episode now that's obviously very

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difficult to do there are services who

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do that kind of thing so we're going to

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decide whether we offer it as a separate

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item because there's obviously a cost

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involved whether we roll it into the

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power cast plus

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or whether we just get volunteers so we

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haven't decided what's your take chris

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about transcriptions

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well you know i've i'm

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i'm not really sure um

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you know how useful they will be

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although

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you know one part of me um

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you know understands

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you know the the importance of of

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documenting

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some of the guests that we have on the

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show and some of the claims that are

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made and whatnot and and it would be an

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invaluable research tool but it's an

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awful lot of work

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having done a transcript of the

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one of the first shows that i was a host

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co-host on which was the round

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mutilation round table

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i did the uh

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transcript uh to pull sections out from

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from my book stalking the herd

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and and it's very difficult sometimes to

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uh to do transcripts based on the

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quality of the connection

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you know just fumbling around sometimes

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you can't really understand a word here

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or word there it's it's difficult but

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but again i do have you know two friends

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that are professional transcribers so it

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would be to have it done properly and by

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by some an expert in that that sort of

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thing uh it could be it could be a

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little expensive so i'm not sure i'm i'm

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still

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kind of debating that that whole uh

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scenario i'm not really sure

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you know would we need to get permission

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for instance from guests to uh to offer

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a transcribed version of you know that

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it does get into some legal

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uh gray areas as well so i'm not sure we

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have to do a little bit more research on

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this and and determine whether it's uh

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it's feasible or not well aside from the

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legalities the thing i wonder about

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there is if you agree to be on the radio

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and someone's hearing your voice

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you can't stop somebody from

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independently

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writing it down that's true yeah it is

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it does become kind of public domain at

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that point right the show is not public

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domain of course

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but what people say

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i don't know

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i've talked to a lawyer about that i

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assume if they go on the show they

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expect somebody's going to write it down

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and we'll have to see where we take that

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but it's an interesting concept i agree

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with you about just trying to do an

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accurate transcription i know back in

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the days when i had that magazine with

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geneva called caveat mtor i would do

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interviews of personalities that never

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get interviewed in the ufo or paranormal

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fields and i would do a tape recorded

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interview just as i did on radio and

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then i would transcribe it for the

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magazine

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and that was one royal pain even like a

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10

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20 30 minute interview to have to write

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that down to have to listen to a passage

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over and over what did i say

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what did richard shavers say

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what did jim mosely say what did tim

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beckley say these are all the people

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that i interviewed in those days and i

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had to get everything right you know

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sometimes of course when you're you're

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transcribing it and you're putting it

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into print you make minor

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very minor edits and it depends on what

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your point of view is about the

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precision of those edits but i really

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don't want to ever do that again so i

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think if somebody wanted to transcribe

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the power cast

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well of course if they think they're in

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it for the bucks they've come to the

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wrong show

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but you know we'll explore it and maybe

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we'll talk more about that in after the

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power cast and future episodes

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in any case our guest today

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is somebody who's been on the show

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before several times and he's a

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co-author of left to the skate

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he's investigated the rendelsham case

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he's investigated ufo abductions he was

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very close with the late bud hopkins and

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he has a new book out now which is being

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distributed free

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courtesy of phenomena magazine we've got

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a link back in the forums where

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the questions are being posed for peter

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robbins or based

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it's called special report deliberate

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deception

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a case of disinformation

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in

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the ufo research community that's a

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seven part book by the way

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and right now it's free i don't know

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where that's going to take it

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it's got

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a

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this

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to the paranormal research community i

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think is kind of extraordinary because

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it represents a lot of work on the part

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of peter robbins and i want to

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understand that even before we get into

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the conclusions

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about what he has to say and we do have

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some questions from our listeners to

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voice

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so this is going to be one of the

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fascinating episodes most fascinating

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episodes we presented on the power cast

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and once again if you want to hear the

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ad free version and subscribe to

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the powercast plus

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and also hereafter the powercast as a

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result

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go to

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plus.theparacast.com

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with gene and with chris you're in the

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so here's what happened i was placing an

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order online the site went down it took

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hours before it returned but i had

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already placed the order with another

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company if your site goes down you could

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lose business and if you have a business

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or personal site you'll want to know

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it's easy to run and it will stay online

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at iweb your site is hosted on one of

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the most reliable networks in the world

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talk to a sales rep at iweb.com use the

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promo code tech night owl for a special

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discount first game attack of the

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rockoids and it was a critically

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acclaimed success and now there is the

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coming of the protectors a former

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military intelligence man is contacted

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by a space woman in a dream a dream that

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turns out to be a nightmare because evil

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forces on her distant planet are

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planning to conquer the earth this is

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gripping science fiction of the classic

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00:10:51,430 --> 00:10:49,279
kind attack of the rockoids and the

285
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coming of the protectors find out more

286
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at rockoaids.com that's rockoids

287
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r-o-c-k-o-i-d-s dot com

288
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on the average americans work between 45

289
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to 50 years hoping to build up enough

290
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:02,720
wealth to retire and live out their

291
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:05,440
golden years unfortunately with taxation

292
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the rising cost of food energy housing

293
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and medical many retirees are forced to

294
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live below the poverty line is this a

295
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flaw free enterprise or is our monetary

296
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unit we call the federal reserve note

297
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forcing us into perpetual debt ensuring

298
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inflation and higher taxes these

299
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questions and more can be answered by

300
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reading g edward griffin's book the

301
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creature from jekyll island congressman

302
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ron paul states it's what every american

303
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needs to know about central bank power a

304
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gripping adventure into the secret world

305
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of international banking cartel hi this

306
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is ted anderson i will give a silver

307
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who purchases this book call 1-800-687

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312
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313
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we all have our own idea about what

314
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315
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locked bills are paid you've got a job

316
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317
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call your own but what happens when

318
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mother nature throws a curveball

319
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[Music]

320
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366
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

367
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:05,920
comment or question about the paracast

368
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:09,519
send it to news at theparecast.com

369
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:12,720
that's news at theparacast.com

370
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:14,560
and don't forget to visit our famous

371
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paracast community forums at

372
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:23,670
so maybe the aliens are responsible for

373
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:26,480
the fact that peter robbins was unable

374
00:14:30,629 --> 00:14:28,639
to get his skype connection to work with

375
00:14:31,590 --> 00:14:30,639
us peter do you think it's a secret plot

376
00:14:33,269 --> 00:14:31,600
by the

377
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:33,279
powers that be

378
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:37,040
no i think it's um uh uh

379
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:40,480
my computer idiocy uh with with very

380
00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:42,240
little mystery involved

381
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:44,560
well don't put yourself down here

382
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:46,959
well i'm i'm a bit of a computer idiot

383
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:47,680
so

384
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:50,720
um i accept full responsibility without

385
00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:52,240
any uh

386
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:54,480
dark entanglements or conspiratorial

387
00:14:58,790 --> 00:14:56,160
aspects

388
00:15:00,389 --> 00:14:58,800
i'm a computer illiterate

389
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:00,399
welcome to the club

390
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:02,560
see i i kind of feel strange here

391
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:04,959
because i'm always called upon to solve

392
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,800
the world's problems with computers

393
00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:08,720
anyway

394
00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:10,399
so you

395
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:12,399
met up with chris at this

396
00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:15,440
conference at travis walton indeed hell

397
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:19,040
very recently can you tell us about that

398
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:21,040
yeah it's um

399
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:24,240
it took place uh about a month ago

400
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:28,399
in a fairly uh remote part of arizona it

401
00:15:33,509 --> 00:15:30,480
was important to travis

402
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:33,519
that the venue be as close as

403
00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:35,360
realistically possible

404
00:15:41,189 --> 00:15:38,480
to where the events of november 1975

405
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:41,199
occurred having worked with travis

406
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:42,959
for several years

407
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:44,560
irregularly and

408
00:15:49,829 --> 00:15:47,279
over this past year fairly constantly as

409
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:49,839
part of the team to bring it together

410
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:52,480
it was something of a challenge to

411
00:15:56,629 --> 00:15:55,040
get all the logistics together but i

412
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,639
thought it was a wonderful lineup of

413
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:58,720
speakers it was uh

414
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:00,560
very moving quite an emotional

415
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:03,680
conference um a very good connection

416
00:16:06,829 --> 00:16:05,920
between the audience and those making

417
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:06,839
their

418
00:16:10,949 --> 00:16:08,800
presentations and

419
00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:10,959
we will certainly be having it next year

420
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:13,440
which will be the 40th anniversary of

421
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,839
the event and thereafter

422
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:17,519
all things being equal it will become an

423
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,959
annual conference

424
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:21,120
fast question here about this peter is

425
00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:23,120
it still going to be in that small town

426
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:25,519
in arizona or will you go to some place

427
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:27,199
i can drive to without going through the

428
00:16:31,269 --> 00:16:28,160
mountains

429
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:31,279
yeah um that has not been finalized yet

430
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:34,000
and again we're we've got a year to do

431
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:35,040
this

432
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:38,480
so i i don't know i don't know um if it

433
00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:41,199
is in the same general area

434
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:44,240
it may or may not be in the exact

435
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:47,440
location or say within half an hour

436
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:48,800
in um

437
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:51,360
an area that's a bit more conventional

438
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:52,480
you know like

439
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:55,279
a hotel complex rather than uh where we

440
00:16:58,150 --> 00:16:56,240
were

441
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:58,160
hasn't been decided yet

442
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:59,920
now one of the questions i wondered

443
00:17:03,350 --> 00:17:01,360
about here is when we're talking about

444
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:03,360
people like travis walton who are ufo

445
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:04,640
abductees

446
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:07,600
since the death of bud hopkins

447
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:09,600
i haven't heard too much activity on the

448
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:12,000
abduction front so what's happening with

449
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:14,799
the research and how are they going to

450
00:17:19,669 --> 00:17:17,199
carry on what he did because all the

451
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:19,679
stuff that he accumulated over the years

452
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:22,240
yes first let me say um

453
00:17:28,870 --> 00:17:25,360
and not to parse words here but um

454
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:28,880
travis's event is kind of in

455
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:32,320
a place by itself travis is not what we

456
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,960
would call an abductee if one defines it

457
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:36,960
as somebody who has had

458
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:39,520
these experiences from early childhood

459
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:40,799
on as

460
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:42,880
really the profile demands

461
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:45,600
travis seems to have been at the wrong

462
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:48,480
place at the wrong time and this was

463
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:52,400
very much an isolated event in his life

464
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:54,240
for any of your listeners that are not

465
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:56,320
familiar with it very briefly

466
00:18:01,590 --> 00:17:58,400
he was a professional logger for his

467
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:01,600
whole life and um he and the crew that

468
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:04,000
he was working with as they finished a

469
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:06,720
shift and it was getting dark saw a glow

470
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:09,840
in the distance um being very attuned to

471
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:12,160
the area they thought there was a chance

472
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:14,160
it might be a forest fire and headed for

473
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:14,799
it

474
00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:22,160
object hanging over this clearing in the

475
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:23,120
woods

476
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,200
and he very impulsively

477
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:27,600
as he is the first to admit got out

478
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,559
and went right out under it much to the

479
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:32,400
upset of his

480
00:18:35,669 --> 00:18:34,000
colleagues who were screaming for him to

481
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:35,679
get back in the truck

482
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:37,360
and at a certain moment

483
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:39,360
he realized perhaps he had done the

484
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:42,799
wrong thing and moved to get back

485
00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:45,679
now whether or not what happened next

486
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,080
was some kind of function of a super

487
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:50,480
intelligent machine on its own

488
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:51,679
or

489
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:55,200
of the occupants

490
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:57,520
he was struck by what all agree

491
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:00,640
was a blue bolt of light or energy that

492
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:03,760
threw him up to 15 feet and when he

493
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:04,880
landed

494
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:07,280
there was either smoke or steam coming

495
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:10,480
off of him and he was not moving and

496
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:14,080
they took off to stop very shortly after

497
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:16,400
to scream at each other and uh decide

498
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,880
what the hell to do and they went back

499
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:20,160
he was gone

500
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:24,640
and that began the search for his body

501
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:27,360
or his self and the entanglement with

502
00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:31,520
local law enforcement but not to digress

503
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:36,640
but we lost bud in august of 2011

504
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:39,919
and of course for those of us who were

505
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:42,240
friends and close colleagues it was an

506
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:45,840
irreplaceable loss bud was arguably the

507
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:47,919
father of scientific study of the

508
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:49,840
abduction phenomena

509
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,400
all of his records all of his

510
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:56,480
many hundreds of tape recordings of

511
00:20:02,150 --> 00:19:58,799
interviews and regressive hypnotic

512
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:02,160
sessions are with his close friend and

513
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:05,039
very close colleague dr david jacobs who

514
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:07,280
is now a retired

515
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:08,960
professor of history from temple

516
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:11,200
university in philadelphia

517
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:12,720
and

518
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:15,360
david continues his own work of course

519
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:16,480
but

520
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:18,960
there are people continuing the work in

521
00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:21,440
their own way but we're talking about

522
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:24,320
the loss of a real giant here and

523
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:26,240
the best known figure in the world

524
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:28,559
associated with the work of course we

525
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:31,440
lost dr john mack to a very drunken

526
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:32,400
driver

527
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:34,720
in 2004

528
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:36,480
and um

529
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:37,840
i don't know

530
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:40,320
if we will have another individual of

531
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:42,799
his caliber or dedication

532
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:44,480
to come along

533
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:47,039
and completely focus in on this we do

534
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:48,960
have among others

535
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:53,120
kathleen martin who um i i think is

536
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:55,760
certainly as respected if not the most

537
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:58,640
respected specialist in this area right

538
00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:00,080
now

539
00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:03,200
another remarkable woman who kathleen

540
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:04,400
has actually

541
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:05,280
um

542
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:06,320
worked with

543
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:07,280
um

544
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:12,960
blanking for a moment here

545
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:13,679
but

546
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:15,200
i think she was on the show with

547
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:17,440
kathleen like a couple of years back

548
00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:19,840
kathleen's going to be back on

549
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:21,679
the power cast in the near future but

550
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:24,480
the cut from chase here i wanted to

551
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:27,360
denise denise stoner who denise wrote a

552
00:21:31,510 --> 00:21:29,600
book called the abduction files and it's

553
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:31,520
an outstanding book it came out last

554
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:34,000
year with kathleen denise was on with

555
00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:36,000
kathleen every time the book came out it

556
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:37,520
was one of our better episodes about

557
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:39,120
this we're very happy to have them well

558
00:21:43,110 --> 00:21:40,799
they're two extremely smart and

559
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:43,120
dedicated women no question about it i'm

560
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:45,600
always happy to talk to kathleen but i

561
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:47,360
also wonder here when we talk about

562
00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:49,200
abductions and we're going to split for

563
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:51,280
the segment in just a moment but sure

564
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:53,840
the thing that always bothers me is we

565
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:56,799
have a little bit or of excessive

566
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:58,400
emotionalism

567
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:59,600
as you know

568
00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:00,720
about

569
00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:03,520
bud hopkins and david jacobs

570
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:05,440
and i don't want to mention the sources

571
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:07,039
we all know who they are

572
00:22:10,549 --> 00:22:08,799
and i realize that nobody's above

573
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:10,559
criticism and this will be a question we

574
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:12,799
can bring up in our next segment

575
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:13,760
why

576
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:16,400
we're getting this emotionalism

577
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:18,640
and why we are getting these personal

578
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:20,000
attacks

579
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:22,000
about people like that i think if

580
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:23,919
someone has a legitimate criticism to

581
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:26,559
make about someone's research that could

582
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:28,320
be focused

583
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:30,480
in a pretty responsible fashion because

584
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:32,720
we're all here to try to learn about

585
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:36,400
what's going on but if it becomes fodder

586
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:38,480
for flame wars well that's another thing

587
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:40,080
we'll get into more of that in a moment

588
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:42,159
peter robbins is joining gene and chris

589
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:50,870
we are the premier independent talk

590
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radio network the genesis communications

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is there a secret ufo agenda do strange

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creatures from the darkest corners of

594
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the mind roam the earth is there

595
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evidence for mind control time travel or

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devious government conspiracies

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find out the inside scoop on the latest

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conspiracies paranormal activity and

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664
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666
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swirling from ksco radio in santa cruz

667
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:05,919
i'm 93 years old and i'm a big fan of

668
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alex jones because he has the courage to

669
00:26:14,549 --> 00:26:11,200
speak his mind more than just about

670
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anyone i know alex is just as bothered

671
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as i am about all the advertising you

672
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hear for toxic prescription drugs that

673
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make you sicker not healthy i'd prefer

674
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to give my body all 90 essential

675
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676
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disease not compounded my favorite

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678
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679
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every day along with efa plus and beyond

680
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681
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682
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to purchase these products and make them

683
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part of your daily regimen to get

684
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:06,149
[Music]

685
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,720
this is jerome clark author of the ufo

686
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:10,720
encyclopedia in other books you're

687
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:19,110
so with gene and chris we're talking to

688
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:20,960
peter robbins who of course has been

689
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:22,480
involved in abduction research for a

690
00:27:26,789 --> 00:27:23,840
long time

691
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:26,799
co-author of left at eastgate with larry

692
00:27:31,029 --> 00:27:28,640
warren and we'll be getting into this

693
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:31,039
new book that he has out

694
00:27:33,909 --> 00:27:32,159
which is

695
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:33,919
deliberate deception the case of

696
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,760
disinformation in the ufo research

697
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:37,600
community we'll focus a lot on that but

698
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:39,039
i wanted to get into some of these other

699
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:41,279
subjects and bring us up to date so sure

700
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:43,360
why the flame wars

701
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:47,039
about abductions i mean it's already a

702
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:49,039
frightening enough event whatever you

703
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:51,760
think caused it whatever explanation you

704
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:55,039
ascribe to it we have people who are

705
00:27:59,110 --> 00:27:57,120
just scared to death at what happened to

706
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:59,120
them and then we take people who are

707
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:01,200
trying to sort things out and rather

708
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:03,919
than treat it as something to discuss

709
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:06,080
responsibly it becomes

710
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:07,760
bait for attacks

711
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:11,120
yes well if you're asking me from my

712
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:12,880
fairly privileged position over the

713
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:16,399
years of working at bud's side for

714
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:19,120
probably close to 20 years on and off of

715
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:22,159
our 35-year friendship i think part of

716
00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:24,080
the problem here is very human and

717
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:26,000
rather sad which is

718
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:29,600
a certain amount of jealousy and ego

719
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:33,200
coming in i think also as you say um

720
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:35,279
fear of the event

721
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:36,799
of this kind of

722
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:39,600
event which can exacerbate itself and

723
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:41,919
over theatricalize um

724
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:45,279
the fact is that even after all these

725
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:47,840
years if you were to ask me you know

726
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:49,520
what's the story about this what's

727
00:28:55,350 --> 00:28:52,000
actually going on why is it going on the

728
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:55,360
best i can do gene is is make an

729
00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:58,000
educated guess maybe a better educated

730
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:59,120
guest than

731
00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:01,200
somebody who is a casual observer or

732
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:02,559
uninformed

733
00:29:08,389 --> 00:29:05,440
but i i wouldn't presume to know

734
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:08,399
what i would say is definitely

735
00:29:11,909 --> 00:29:09,520
a fact

736
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:11,919
for some will sound like science fiction

737
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:14,559
but is anything but namely that

738
00:29:20,389 --> 00:29:17,600
we're not alone duh that there are

739
00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:20,399
either a group within these other

740
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:22,640
intelligences or

741
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:24,240
more than one group

742
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,200
that

743
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:27,120
take human beings

744
00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:30,320
examine them um follow them throughout a

745
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,000
good portion of their lives return them

746
00:29:38,549 --> 00:29:36,559
and depending on

747
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:38,559
i guess the attitude the outlook the

748
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:41,440
background of the individual that

749
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:43,440
individual may

750
00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:45,919
live in a certain amount of anxiety or

751
00:29:49,909 --> 00:29:48,080
concern about the next event

752
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:49,919
they may live

753
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:53,200
in the very well chosen title of

754
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:55,919
david jacobs first book on the subject

755
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,200
secret life

756
00:30:02,710 --> 00:29:59,760
live very keyed to the fact that

757
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:02,720
ridicule has been brilliantly attached

758
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:05,279
to the subject of taking ufos seriously

759
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:07,840
in general and certainly in specific

760
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:09,360
about the abduction

761
00:30:13,510 --> 00:30:11,440
phenomenon and live basically in the

762
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:13,520
hopes that nobody will find out about

763
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:16,799
this or they will feel that they'll be

764
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:19,360
excised from their community or be

765
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:21,279
looked upon as mentally ill or what have

766
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:24,080
you i think that we have dealt with a

767
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:26,640
number of people who have attacked both

768
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:28,720
bud and dave

769
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:31,520
because they may be mentally unbalanced

770
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:33,760
or they may be incredibly

771
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:35,679
jealous or

772
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:36,720
see

773
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:38,159
the situation

774
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:41,760
as so unexplainable and so frustrating

775
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:44,080
that they will attack the messenger

776
00:30:49,909 --> 00:30:46,960
rather than do a careful analysis

777
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:49,919
of the best research on the subject and

778
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,000
certainly some of that has been

779
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:54,960
generated over the decades by

780
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,159
bud hopkins and dave jacobs and from a

781
00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:00,080
somewhat different point of view by dr

782
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:03,760
john mack i will say because people

783
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:06,159
have over the years asked me

784
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:08,080
from my point of view

785
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:11,279
why bud and dave's attitude toward the

786
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:13,440
phenomena seem so negative

787
00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:16,240
and dr max seemed positive

788
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:18,080
what i observed and discussed with all

789
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:20,000
three of them over the years

790
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:22,720
was overwhelmingly the people who

791
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:23,840
presented

792
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:26,880
to bud hopkins and dave jacobs from the

793
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:28,240
get-go

794
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:30,320
were people who were traumatized by the

795
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:32,799
events they went through on the other

796
00:31:35,669 --> 00:31:33,760
hand

797
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:35,679
john mack who

798
00:31:39,509 --> 00:31:37,679
by the time he got involved in the work

799
00:31:42,549 --> 00:31:39,519
in the early 90s

800
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:42,559
had pretty much given up on the western

801
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:44,480
philosophical model

802
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:47,679
his attention had long before turned to

803
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:48,720
the east

804
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:50,880
and what he was looking for

805
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:52,880
actively searching for

806
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:55,760
was positive transcendence

807
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:58,000
positive experiences growth related

808
00:32:01,669 --> 00:31:59,360
experiences

809
00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:01,679
among people that had had these events

810
00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:04,320
all three of these guys i see as

811
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:07,519
humanists people who care about people

812
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:09,919
john of course was a highly respected

813
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:12,880
psychiatrist who taught at harvard and

814
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:14,880
was co-founder of the

815
00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:16,960
psychiatric wing of cambridge hospital

816
00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:18,880
where i had the honor to speak in the

817
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:20,720
late 90s with him

818
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:23,519
um before an audience and

819
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:26,240
john was simply less interested he was

820
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:27,120
not

821
00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:28,880
uncompassionate but he was less

822
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:30,159
interested

823
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:30,960
in

824
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:34,960
who had been traumatized by this and

825
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:37,200
much more actively interested

826
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:39,360
in getting the accounts and trying to

827
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:41,679
find a commonality among folks who had

828
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:43,360
reported positive

829
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:45,519
so therefore it's not so much

830
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:48,080
that they are attracting a specific

831
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:51,279
category of abductees but they're

832
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:53,679
focusing their research

833
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:54,559
on

834
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:57,600
specific things so dr mack therefore

835
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:59,519
may not be getting

836
00:33:03,029 --> 00:33:01,360
the less positive

837
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:03,039
items to research because he didn't

838
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,200
focus on it even though they may

839
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:07,679
bring those cases to him what i'm saying

840
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:12,000
is in dr mack's case he was

841
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:14,240
very upfront about the fact

842
00:33:19,269 --> 00:33:16,399
that his primary interest

843
00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:19,279
was in finding documenting

844
00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:21,279
and trying to

845
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:23,279
look more deeply into the positive

846
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:25,440
aspects of the experience

847
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:28,480
with bud and dr jacobs

848
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:30,399
these were simply the overwhelming

849
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,200
preponderance of the kinds of accounts

850
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:35,679
of people who approached them so the

851
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:37,360
point being here is

852
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:39,039
and this is one of the arguments made so

853
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:41,519
maybe we can bring it to the table were

854
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:43,440
they therefore attracting the more

855
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:45,440
negative cases because that's what they

856
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:47,440
focused on or

857
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:49,600
is someone who is

858
00:33:54,070 --> 00:33:51,440
encountering a set of negative

859
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:54,080
experiences more apt to want to seek

860
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:56,880
help where does it go well again i have

861
00:34:01,830 --> 00:33:59,360
to and i want to say this as clearly as

862
00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:01,840
possible i never

863
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:03,440
observed or

864
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:05,120
had any sense

865
00:34:07,669 --> 00:34:06,799
that bud

866
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,679
was

867
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:09,359
you know putting out a message there

868
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:10,720
that he

869
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:13,520
was not interested in

870
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,280
no wrong way to say it

871
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:17,760
these were the people that came

872
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:20,639
to bud people who were having problems

873
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:23,919
adjusting or dealing with the experience

874
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:26,879
and i guess kind of de facto as he

875
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:30,480
became known to focus in on that more

876
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:33,280
people that had had experiences

877
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:35,520
that they were not dealing with well

878
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:36,879
approached but

879
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:39,679
where because john on the other hand was

880
00:34:44,869 --> 00:34:42,480
was very upfront about the fact that he

881
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:44,879
was looking for people who had had

882
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:46,960
positive experiences to help him

883
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:50,720
understand that more that yes he tended

884
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:52,720
to get the positive cases after a

885
00:34:59,190 --> 00:34:56,399
fashion where bud and dave continued to

886
00:35:01,109 --> 00:34:59,200
get cases of people who were having a

887
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:01,119
real problem with this now looking at

888
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:03,599
the overall picture then can we say that

889
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:05,280
most people who have

890
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:06,960
what they regard as abductions are

891
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:09,760
having some sort of negative response to

892
00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:12,240
it well let me put it this way

893
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:14,079
the way that most of us grew up here in

894
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:15,599
the western world

895
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:18,160
whether from families where we grew up

896
00:35:21,670 --> 00:35:20,560
in a religious atmosphere or totally

897
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:21,680
secular

898
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:22,720
nothing

899
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:26,000
prepared us even for the idea of this

900
00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:28,800
kind of experience and so

901
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:31,119
for most people i i think it's fair to

902
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:32,560
say in

903
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,160
the western world

904
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:36,960
if to give an archetype if you find

905
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,480
yourself waking up in the middle of the

906
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:40,720
night seeing light coming from under

907
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:43,440
your door a glow at the far end of your

908
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:46,800
bed and several non-human beings and you

909
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:50,400
then find that you're unable to move and

910
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:52,320
you find yourself rising out of bed and

911
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:54,000
either being floated through the ceiling

912
00:35:59,910 --> 00:35:56,480
or through a plate glass window

913
00:36:03,589 --> 00:35:59,920
into a craft for lack of a better term

914
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:03,599
it is a traumatic experience it's not oh

915
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:05,200
good they're here welcome to space

916
00:36:10,950 --> 00:36:07,760
brothers i can't wait for this event

917
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:10,960
it's very upsetting i think that's how

918
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:13,200
i'd react if i had no background in this

919
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:14,720
and you know what if i did have a

920
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:16,400
background in it i think it would be

921
00:36:19,589 --> 00:36:18,400
upsetting to me i have to tell you

922
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:19,599
something

923
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:21,760
peter and that is

924
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:24,240
i would never want to bring

925
00:36:28,069 --> 00:36:26,240
upon that experience if i had the power

926
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:28,079
to do so i wouldn't want to happen i

927
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:29,920
mean there are people who say gee if

928
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:32,480
there's an e.t out there i'd love to be

929
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:34,480
able to talk to them

930
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:36,079
let's get into more careful what you

931
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:37,200
wish for

932
00:36:43,380 --> 00:36:39,359
with gene and chris you're in the

933
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938
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939
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941
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991
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1001
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1009
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for over five years you've been hearing

1010
00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:04,079
about the berkey guy so you may know a

1011
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:06,560
few things about him for example you are

1012
00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:08,880
well aware of the superior quality and

1013
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effectiveness of berkey water filters

1014
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and accessories but did you know the

1015
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berkeys have had independent lab tests

1016
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:17,119
done to prove just how effective they

1017
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:19,440
are it's true and he can email you the

1018
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:22,640
test results just visit goberke.com

1019
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you may also know that the berkey guy

1020
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:26,480
has helped tens of thousands of people

1021
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get better prepared now here's something

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1025
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same day visit the berkey guy at

1027
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goberke.com and be sure to click the red

1028
00:40:52,390 --> 00:40:45,839
products on sale now button you can

1029
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1030
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:57,440
3653 go berkey dot com home of the

1031
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:04,069
hi this is don ecker and you are tuned

1032
00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:06,960
in to the paracast let me tell you what

1033
00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:09,359
you're going to hear stuff here that you

1034
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:12,720
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

1035
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:15,040
that george snorri

1036
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:16,079
would you

1037
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:19,760
want to wish to be contacted by e.t if

1038
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,920
they are the kind of people who abduct

1039
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:23,520
you in the night certainly i wouldn't

1040
00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:25,040
want that to happen

1041
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:27,200
right now you know there are other

1042
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:28,079
you know

1043
00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:29,920
investigator researcher types out there

1044
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:32,160
that that have attracted all sorts of

1045
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:34,160
positives benevolent space brother

1046
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:36,160
accounts barbara lamb

1047
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:37,520
for instance

1048
00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,760
dolores cannon probably the great

1049
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,440
granddaddy of

1050
00:41:46,230 --> 00:41:43,520
of hypnotic regression and abduction

1051
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:46,240
research dr leo sprinkle

1052
00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:49,520
attracted a wide variety of cases

1053
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:50,240
but

1054
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:52,880
towards the end i think he and his wife

1055
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:55,200
tended to focus more on the

1056
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:57,359
on the more transcendental or

1057
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:59,359
transcendent types of

1058
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:01,599
experiencers

1059
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:03,200
seem to be getting some sort of positive

1060
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:06,079
reinforcement through their view of

1061
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:07,920
their alleged events

1062
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:09,440
we may be dealing with a little bit of

1063
00:42:13,589 --> 00:42:12,160
heisenberg uncertainty principle here

1064
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:13,599
and you know

1065
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:15,200
the very fact of observing something

1066
00:42:20,069 --> 00:42:17,599
sort of changes that in in a in a sense

1067
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:20,079
it may attract the kind of cases that

1068
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:22,560
seem to fall into uh the observer effect

1069
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:24,800
of a foregone conclusion i i have to

1070
00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:26,960
agree with chris in that

1071
00:42:33,190 --> 00:42:30,079
and again we can superimpose our own

1072
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,200
mechanisms or meanings or or

1073
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:35,280
implications on this but you're

1074
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:36,960
absolutely right of course

1075
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:39,520
and you've named several researchers who

1076
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:41,040
have

1077
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:44,240
well more or less specialized in

1078
00:42:48,710 --> 00:42:45,599
positive

1079
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:48,720
kinds of events now is that the result

1080
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:52,640
of an entirely different kind of being

1081
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:56,560
abducting or is it possibly the result

1082
00:43:02,550 --> 00:42:59,760
of what we superimpose on the experience

1083
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:02,560
i remember many years ago and i couldn't

1084
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:04,720
tell you where i got the statistic from

1085
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:06,560
if my life depended on it but it was

1086
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:09,280
simply that somebody had done an

1087
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:10,880
informal study

1088
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:13,760
might have been dr james harder years

1089
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:16,319
ago on people who had claimed to have

1090
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:18,480
abduction experiences in the state of

1091
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:19,760
california

1092
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:22,880
and what the statistic reflected not

1093
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:26,640
surprisingly was those who claimed to be

1094
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:29,440
following a buddhist path

1095
00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:30,560
um

1096
00:43:37,589 --> 00:43:36,240
living their lives in a way of putting

1097
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:37,599
acceptance

1098
00:43:43,589 --> 00:43:40,640
and change first rather than anxiety

1099
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:43,599
about the unknown is this something that

1100
00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:46,800
we bring with us or something that is

1101
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:49,359
part and parcel of the experience i i'm

1102
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:52,000
sure that you guys have come in contact

1103
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,560
with people who like me have had

1104
00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:56,400
decidedly positive

1105
00:44:01,589 --> 00:43:58,720
and decidedly negative

1106
00:44:05,349 --> 00:44:01,599
events and in a few cases that i'm aware

1107
00:44:07,349 --> 00:44:05,359
of come away very conflicted i remember

1108
00:44:09,349 --> 00:44:07,359
of course like all of us that wonderful

1109
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:09,359
poster that hung in

1110
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:12,319
fox mulder's office that iconic i want

1111
00:44:18,230 --> 00:44:15,760
to believe poster and i have come

1112
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:18,240
upon people who have given me detailed

1113
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:21,359
accounts of being absolutely terrified

1114
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:24,000
and then something very akin to love

1115
00:44:29,829 --> 00:44:27,280
in another incident and want very much

1116
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:29,839
to believe this is a very positive

1117
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:32,400
experience even though they have had

1118
00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:35,200
very negative experiences in context

1119
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:37,280
again we superimpose

1120
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:39,359
i think a lot of our own

1121
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:42,400
thoughts beliefs concerns fears

1122
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:44,960
anxieties uh longings

1123
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:48,160
on this experience i will say once again

1124
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:49,680
though for

1125
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:51,040
your average

1126
00:44:55,109 --> 00:44:52,640
judeo-christian

1127
00:44:57,270 --> 00:44:55,119
westerner complete agnostic or person of

1128
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:57,280
faith to have that archetypical

1129
00:45:01,829 --> 00:44:58,560
experience

1130
00:45:04,630 --> 00:45:01,839
it is not part of anything

1131
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:04,640
that we were raised to understand was a

1132
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:08,000
possibility and superimposed on that the

1133
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:10,240
ridicule that has brilliantly attached

1134
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:12,960
itself and that's not an accident

1135
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:13,920
to

1136
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:16,319
the idea of taking ufos and their

1137
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:18,720
implications seriously going back to

1138
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:22,560
1947 and the ridicule that's attached it

1139
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:25,040
is something that most people would not

1140
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:27,520
want you know everybody that they know

1141
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:29,760
to know about well the thing i'm trying

1142
00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:32,400
to focus on here then is the layer that

1143
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:34,400
we're putting on the experience

1144
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:37,200
how close to the actual experience

1145
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:38,240
are we

1146
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:40,560
understanding to happen on the basis of

1147
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:43,200
the eyewitness testimony we get

1148
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:44,960
that's the question a big question there

1149
00:45:49,109 --> 00:45:47,280
is some dispute over that is that a

1150
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:49,119
literal interpretation of the event

1151
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:50,480
that's et

1152
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:52,319
we talk about screen memories for

1153
00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:55,839
example that i guess supposedly et puts

1154
00:45:59,589 --> 00:45:57,599
this screen memory

1155
00:46:01,349 --> 00:45:59,599
in our minds so we don't see what really

1156
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:01,359
happened and then somehow we probed

1157
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:03,119
below the surface and we see they had

1158
00:46:08,309 --> 00:46:06,079
this horrifying abduction experience but

1159
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:08,319
what if that experience the abduction is

1160
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:11,040
itself a screen memory for something

1161
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:13,760
else that we do not understand at all

1162
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:15,440
well that's a good question

1163
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:17,920
and i don't know how to answer the fact

1164
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:20,480
is that something is going on and it's

1165
00:46:24,710 --> 00:46:23,839
very real and let's remind our listeners

1166
00:46:27,829 --> 00:46:24,720
here

1167
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:27,839
that the information to back this up is

1168
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:29,280
certainly a great deal more than

1169
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:32,160
anecdotal or witness oriented over the

1170
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:35,200
decades i've been privy to

1171
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:37,520
the records where appropriate and where

1172
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:39,920
allowed of a mental health professional

1173
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:42,160
or a physician who was working with the

1174
00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:43,839
individual and

1175
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:46,400
family histories multiple witnesses a

1176
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:49,440
testimony corroborating the events from

1177
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:53,200
a spouse or a parent or a sibling or a

1178
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:55,599
neighbor that night that you know g that

1179
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:57,359
i claimed to have been abducted all the

1180
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:58,880
electricity went out in the neighborhood

1181
00:47:04,390 --> 00:47:01,680
there was big burn mark on the lawn uh

1182
00:47:06,870 --> 00:47:04,400
after that when i went for a cat scan

1183
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:06,880
there's this little square tiny thing

1184
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:08,720
you know two inches into my brain that

1185
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:10,960
couldn't have gotten there or

1186
00:47:15,190 --> 00:47:13,280
you know the scarification these marks

1187
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:15,200
that appear on people some of them like

1188
00:47:19,270 --> 00:47:16,800
tiny little

1189
00:47:21,990 --> 00:47:19,280
scoops like a tiny tiny miniature ice

1190
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:22,000
cream scoop that seems self-cauterized

1191
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:23,760
and that wasn't there when you went to

1192
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,480
bed that is there the next day or

1193
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:28,800
corroborating a memory when little

1194
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:30,800
johnny just was missing from the fourth

1195
00:47:34,550 --> 00:47:33,200
of july picnic and everybody panicked

1196
00:47:36,550 --> 00:47:34,560
and the police came in and they found

1197
00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:36,560
him on his tricycle under an apple tree

1198
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:38,880
four miles away with little mark on his

1199
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:41,599
body and nonetheless for wear there is a

1200
00:47:46,950 --> 00:47:43,760
great deal of supporting real world

1201
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:46,960
evidence here as well as people making

1202
00:47:51,589 --> 00:47:50,000
these reports per se so where do we go

1203
00:47:53,589 --> 00:47:51,599
with this is there ever going to be a

1204
00:47:56,309 --> 00:47:53,599
solution or are we going to be

1205
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:56,319
confronted with thousands of reports

1206
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:58,319
of possible abductions with no

1207
00:48:02,550 --> 00:48:00,800
resolution well we're already

1208
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:02,560
facing many many

1209
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:04,400
thousands if not tens of thousands of

1210
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:06,400
such reports worldwide going back

1211
00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:08,640
decades there's a wild card here which

1212
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:09,440
is

1213
00:48:17,829 --> 00:48:15,839
accounts that suggest very strongly that

1214
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:17,839
part of what's going on here part of the

1215
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:21,920
taken syndrome is to remove ovum and

1216
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:24,480
sperm and that there are these beings

1217
00:48:31,270 --> 00:48:27,839
being created who are part us and part

1218
00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:31,280
them the answer may lie with this hybrid

1219
00:48:36,309 --> 00:48:34,160
phenomena i mean how many are there what

1220
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:36,319
are they doing where are they my best

1221
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:38,480
sense and it was not a subject or an

1222
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:41,280
idea that i i liked in fact i was very

1223
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:43,119
uncomfortable with it when it was first

1224
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:44,800
presented to me and i started to see

1225
00:48:49,510 --> 00:48:45,760
evidence

1226
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:49,520
of its reality that some of these beings

1227
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:52,480
look very strange if you saw one on a

1228
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:54,800
street it would be very upsetting where

1229
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:58,160
others could pass completely for a

1230
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:01,040
regulation issue you know human being

1231
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:02,400
what are they about

1232
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:05,359
perhaps we are getting to a point where

1233
00:49:11,829 --> 00:49:08,640
the next card will be played where they

1234
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:11,839
will make themselves known i don't know

1235
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,839
i think that you know originally when

1236
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:15,680
people talked about this the euphemism

1237
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:18,319
was they're experimenting well this i

1238
00:49:23,510 --> 00:49:20,480
don't think that's the case at all there

1239
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:23,520
is a program in effect as real as

1240
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:26,000
say if the three of us were research

1241
00:49:31,829 --> 00:49:28,880
biologists specializing in some mammal

1242
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:31,839
forms that you know got us up to a job

1243
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:33,040
in say

1244
00:49:37,030 --> 00:49:35,520
northern canada wilderness where we were

1245
00:49:39,190 --> 00:49:37,040
trying to

1246
00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:39,200
document some otter that you know might

1247
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:42,720
be going into extinction and harmlessly

1248
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:44,480
catching them painlessly catching them

1249
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:47,200
in a pain-free trap calming them down

1250
00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:50,160
with perhaps a sedative spray painting a

1251
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:52,000
number on their back putting a collar on

1252
00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:53,680
them and then letting them go and

1253
00:49:57,990 --> 00:49:55,520
tracking them and they wander back into

1254
00:49:59,190 --> 00:49:58,000
otter society and in so many hotter

1255
00:50:01,829 --> 00:49:59,200
words so you're never going to guess

1256
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:01,839
what happened to me and you know they

1257
00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:03,440
fellow otters look at it and see what's

1258
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:04,960
that strange thing around your neck and

1259
00:50:09,430 --> 00:50:06,800
you smell funny and your eyes look weird

1260
00:50:11,349 --> 00:50:09,440
and what's that number that thing

1261
00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:11,359
painted on your back yeah and the

1262
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:13,119
disbelievers that say that's utterly

1263
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:15,359
ridiculous how do you think that exactly

1264
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:17,119
and shame on you i wish i thought of

1265
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:19,200
that that's the worst pun of the year

1266
00:50:23,349 --> 00:50:21,440
folks but the other phenomenon are the

1267
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:23,359
human beings the otters are we being

1268
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:27,119
watched by some sophisticated

1269
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:30,480
some sophisticated rfd methodology i

1270
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:31,520
don't know i think if they were

1271
00:50:36,309 --> 00:50:34,079
following me they get bored very quickly

1272
00:50:37,829 --> 00:50:36,319
on the other hand wow

1273
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:37,839
we have peter robbins with gene and

1274
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:39,280
chris you're in

1275
00:50:43,370 --> 00:51:08,309
[Music]

1276
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:11,430
a little right a little left but always

1277
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:13,280
independent-minded

1278
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:18,400
the genesis communications network g-c-n

1279
00:51:23,829 --> 00:51:20,880
mom i can't do my math homework i just

1280
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:23,839
don't get it i hate math i've always

1281
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:25,440
tried to be a good mother but when it

1282
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:27,680
came to jamie's math i was at a loss

1283
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:29,520
then a friend told me about math made

1284
00:51:34,230 --> 00:51:32,319
easy dvds concepts are simplified in an

1285
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:34,240
easy way to follow and review and

1286
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:36,000
students can learn at their own pace in

1287
00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:38,000
the convenience of home listen in the

1288
00:51:44,349 --> 00:51:40,559
frustration call math made easy call now

1289
00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:44,359
1-800 usa math that's

1290
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:46,319
1-800-872-6284 or visit us at

1291
00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:48,000
mathmadeeasy.com

1292
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:49,920
we the people grow cotton weave fabric

1293
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:51,839
engraved ink embeds strips and fibers to

1294
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:53,520
protect from counterfeit then carting to

1295
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:55,280
a private bank having it led back at

1296
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:57,359
interest forcing taxes to service debt

1297
00:52:00,790 --> 00:51:59,200
this capitalism or was jefferson correct

1298
00:52:02,390 --> 00:52:00,800
when stating a central bank issuing the

1299
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:02,400
public currency is a greater menace to

1300
00:52:05,349 --> 00:52:03,680
the liberties of the people than a

1301
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:05,359
standing army hi ted anderson i'm

1302
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:06,720
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1303
00:52:10,589 --> 00:52:08,640
that explains our monetary system call

1304
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:10,599
for your copy

1305
00:52:14,430 --> 00:52:12,720
800-686-2237 it's time to understand the

1306
00:52:18,150 --> 00:52:14,440
system call

1307
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:18,160
800-686-2237 that's 800-686-2237

1308
00:52:23,589 --> 00:52:20,640
mom i can't do my math homework i just

1309
00:52:25,109 --> 00:52:23,599
don't get it i hate math i've always

1310
00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:25,119
tried to be a good mother but when it

1311
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:27,440
came to jamie's math i was at a loss

1312
00:52:32,069 --> 00:52:29,280
then a friend told me about math made

1313
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:32,079
easy dvds concepts are simplified in an

1314
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:33,920
easy way to follow and review and

1315
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,760
students can learn at their own pace in

1316
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:37,760
the convenience of home listen in the

1317
00:52:44,109 --> 00:52:40,240
frustration call math made easy call now

1318
00:52:46,069 --> 00:52:44,119
1-800 usa math that's

1319
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:46,079
1-800-872-6284 or visit us at

1320
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:55,910
on facebook on the news and in

1321
00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:57,520
conversations with friends we're

1322
00:53:01,670 --> 00:52:59,760
bombarded every day with advice on how

1323
00:53:04,309 --> 00:53:01,680
to be healthier from gluten-free and

1324
00:53:06,230 --> 00:53:04,319
non-gmo diets to how much exercise and

1325
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:06,240
sleep the body needs but how much have

1326
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:08,160
you heard about alkalizing the body

1327
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:10,319
alkavision plasma ph drops are a

1328
00:53:14,710 --> 00:53:12,319
holistic and natural way to get your

1329
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:14,720
body's ph levels back in balance just a

1330
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:16,559
few drops in water will help your body

1331
00:53:20,549 --> 00:53:18,640
rid itself of harmful waste and even the

1332
00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:20,559
healthiest of diets can be complemented

1333
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:22,880
with your daily use of alkavision plasma

1334
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1335
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1336
00:53:31,950 --> 00:53:29,839
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1337
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:31,960
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1338
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:36,319
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1339
00:53:40,790 --> 00:53:38,800
alkavision plasma ph drops are packed

1340
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:40,800
with a powerful combination of the most

1341
00:53:45,670 --> 00:53:43,040
alkaline minerals and compounds open the

1342
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:45,680
door to greater health vitality and zest

1343
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:48,160
for life alkalize your body supercharge

1344
00:53:58,950 --> 00:53:55,750
[Applause]

1345
00:54:02,630 --> 00:53:58,960
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1346
00:54:03,910 --> 00:54:02,640
standard of paranormal radio

1347
00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:03,920
and now

1348
00:54:10,870 --> 00:54:07,270
here's gene steinberg

1349
00:54:16,069 --> 00:54:13,670
yes i just wonder if e.t

1350
00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:16,079
having abducted chris when he was very

1351
00:54:21,829 --> 00:54:18,960
young and chris you did have frankly

1352
00:54:24,630 --> 00:54:21,839
some experiences early on no a singular

1353
00:54:27,109 --> 00:54:24,640
one experience to my uh conscious

1354
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:27,119
knowledge to your conscious knowledge

1355
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:29,359
would you think that was an abduction

1356
00:54:33,589 --> 00:54:30,960
experience then no

1357
00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:33,599
okay i i would hope not i

1358
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:35,680
was kind of missing there for a while

1359
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:37,680
until my sister found me but

1360
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:39,680
i don't have any conscious recollection

1361
00:54:43,990 --> 00:54:42,319
of being taken anywhere although i did

1362
00:54:45,589 --> 00:54:44,000
have a case that was referred to me by a

1363
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:45,599
county sheriff that was absolutely a

1364
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:47,040
mind blower

1365
00:54:51,829 --> 00:54:49,440
again this is one of those cases where a

1366
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:51,839
female abductee fell in love with her

1367
00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:54,240
abductors and it was kind of a

1368
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:57,440
cosmic sort of stockholm syndrome she

1369
00:55:02,150 --> 00:55:00,559
said that uh he was a great lover and uh

1370
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:02,160
she especially liked it when he dressed

1371
00:55:04,829 --> 00:55:03,839
up in his gold lemay cape because he

1372
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:04,839
looked like

1373
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:07,760
elvis wow

1374
00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:11,040
i never got a case like that

1375
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:13,920
yeah it's pretty interesting she had

1376
00:55:17,670 --> 00:55:15,680
quite a bit of tantalizing evidence

1377
00:55:19,589 --> 00:55:17,680
about a missing pregnancy

1378
00:55:21,589 --> 00:55:19,599
that occurred just just as she was

1379
00:55:24,390 --> 00:55:21,599
entering a third trimester

1380
00:55:27,349 --> 00:55:24,400
a very amazing case i dovetailed some of

1381
00:55:28,710 --> 00:55:27,359
her journal entries of some of her

1382
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:28,720
claims

1383
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:31,359
when these incidences allegedly occurred

1384
00:55:36,069 --> 00:55:33,680
and sure enough on that side of the san

1385
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:36,079
luis valley we did have uh other reports

1386
00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:38,240
of unusual lights that sort of thing

1387
00:55:42,790 --> 00:55:40,480
similar to what you described earlier

1388
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:42,800
so i i don't throw this whole thing out

1389
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:43,760
uh

1390
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:45,599
by any stretch there is i think

1391
00:55:48,549 --> 00:55:47,680
something at the core of this i think it

1392
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:48,559
is

1393
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:53,680
tends to be a little bit more

1394
00:55:57,510 --> 00:55:55,680
conservative i i do think that we're

1395
00:55:58,630 --> 00:55:57,520
dealing with something that is is hiding

1396
00:56:01,109 --> 00:55:58,640
behind

1397
00:56:03,750 --> 00:56:01,119
the appearance of an abduction and and

1398
00:56:05,430 --> 00:56:03,760
as gene brought up earlier uh there that

1399
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:05,440
just may be some sort of screen memory

1400
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:06,960
that there might be something

1401
00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:09,040
something more to it this whole idea

1402
00:56:13,829 --> 00:56:11,520
that's been promoted by melinda leslie

1403
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:13,839
stephen greer and others that our own

1404
00:56:18,069 --> 00:56:16,000
military may be behind a number of these

1405
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:18,079
if not a sizable percentage of these

1406
00:56:21,910 --> 00:56:19,920
cases is also something that shouldn't

1407
00:56:23,670 --> 00:56:21,920
be discounted what's your take about

1408
00:56:25,589 --> 00:56:23,680
that peter before we get into the

1409
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:25,599
subject of that book of yours

1410
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:27,359
what do you think about the possibility

1411
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:28,880
that the military

1412
00:56:32,549 --> 00:56:31,760
may have been involved in at least

1413
00:56:34,870 --> 00:56:32,559
some

1414
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:34,880
abduction type experiences

1415
00:56:38,710 --> 00:56:36,720
well i try to take the point of view

1416
00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:38,720
that who are any of us to categorically

1417
00:56:43,910 --> 00:56:41,520
say what is or isn't here i object

1418
00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:43,920
tremendously to dr greer's putting

1419
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:47,520
forward regularly the idea that all

1420
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:50,640
quote-unquote bad or negative abductions

1421
00:56:56,870 --> 00:56:53,760
are military-related abductions why

1422
00:56:57,789 --> 00:56:56,880
because dr greer knows for a fact that

1423
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:57,799
all

1424
00:57:02,150 --> 00:57:00,480
extraterrestrials or other intelligences

1425
00:57:03,829 --> 00:57:02,160
are good for me

1426
00:57:06,309 --> 00:57:03,839
that is the height of intellectual

1427
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:06,319
arrogance unprovable you know i mean

1428
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:08,880
it's nonsense it is an area i have to

1429
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:11,680
say that i have only looked into

1430
00:57:14,789 --> 00:57:12,880
peripherally

1431
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:14,799
and as such

1432
00:57:18,230 --> 00:57:17,520
i don't have a fully formed opinion of

1433
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:18,240
it

1434
00:57:22,630 --> 00:57:20,960
and i'm not trying to weasel out here i

1435
00:57:25,109 --> 00:57:22,640
just don't know

1436
00:57:27,270 --> 00:57:25,119
certainly the military mindset can be

1437
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:27,280
pretty damn devious i i wouldn't

1438
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:30,160
discount it but i think it's relied on

1439
00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:32,240
tremendously by people

1440
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:33,760
who have become

1441
00:57:39,270 --> 00:57:37,040
very attached to it as a point of view

1442
00:57:41,829 --> 00:57:39,280
for the more than 30 years i've been in

1443
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:41,839
this work i have followed a few simple

1444
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:44,960
rules which is whenever i enter into a

1445
00:57:50,309 --> 00:57:47,440
new investigation and it can be one like

1446
00:57:52,230 --> 00:57:50,319
the rendelsham forest incident which was

1447
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:52,240
a dedicated nine years and then

1448
00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:55,440
following up another 16 years of focused

1449
00:57:59,990 --> 00:57:58,160
interest or just sitting with somebody

1450
00:58:01,670 --> 00:58:00,000
in a hotel lobby that wants to relate

1451
00:58:02,630 --> 00:58:01,680
something that's very important to them

1452
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:02,640
to you

1453
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:06,000
that i go in without any agenda i think

1454
00:58:11,109 --> 00:58:08,640
that a lot of my colleagues do have an

1455
00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:11,119
absolute belief or specific point of

1456
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:13,040
view or a pet theory

1457
00:58:20,470 --> 00:58:17,119
that overtly or covertly they want to

1458
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:20,480
prove or validate or have recognized i

1459
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:22,480
will follow the evidence wherever it

1460
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:25,760
goes and then do my best to lay it out

1461
00:58:30,150 --> 00:58:28,240
for anybody interested in in reading

1462
00:58:32,950 --> 00:58:30,160
about it or hearing about it as

1463
00:58:36,470 --> 00:58:32,960
objectively as i'm capable of so i'm

1464
00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:36,480
always open to any possibility no matter

1465
00:58:40,789 --> 00:58:38,799
how remote it might seem you know that's

1466
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:40,799
called intellectual uh honesty as

1467
00:58:44,950 --> 00:58:42,880
opposed to selective thinking and

1468
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:44,960
putting blinders on and being

1469
00:58:49,270 --> 00:58:46,880
intellectually dishonest by throwing

1470
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:49,280
data out well i'm doing my best to do

1471
00:58:54,630 --> 00:58:52,559
that and i do occasionally irritate um

1472
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:54,640
readers or listeners or

1473
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:56,640
people in the field by being very

1474
00:59:02,069 --> 00:58:59,839
careful to parse what i absolutely know

1475
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:02,079
and could prove in a court of law with

1476
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:04,240
the evidence that i've collected to what

1477
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:06,000
i absolutely believe is the case but

1478
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:09,280
can't prove to what i think or fear or

1479
00:59:14,870 --> 00:59:12,720
wonder about and i think sometimes folks

1480
00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:14,880
in the field tend to jumble that

1481
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:18,240
information together or to present what

1482
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:21,920
they believe or long for or hope is the

1483
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:22,960
case

1484
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:26,559
as fact as opposed to what i believe or

1485
00:59:30,829 --> 00:59:29,200
hope for or long for hey this is a good

1486
00:59:33,750 --> 00:59:30,839
way for us to

1487
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:33,760
segue into this book of yours which is

1488
00:59:38,230 --> 00:59:35,839
seven parts pdf

1489
00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:38,240
version of a book over at

1490
00:59:43,630 --> 00:59:41,760
phenomena magazine yes okay and we have

1491
00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:43,640
the link in our forums at

1492
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:45,440
forum.thepowercast.com we will have the

1493
00:59:49,670 --> 00:59:47,280
link in our announcement for this

1494
00:59:51,990 --> 00:59:49,680
episode so you can get yourself a copy

1495
00:59:54,230 --> 00:59:52,000
and see what he's talking about and i'll

1496
00:59:57,750 --> 00:59:54,240
give you the title again it's deliberate

1497
01:00:00,150 --> 00:59:57,760
deception a case of disinformation in

1498
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:00,160
the ufo research community with an

1499
01:00:04,470 --> 01:00:02,480
epilogue by colin andrews who's been on

1500
01:00:06,390 --> 01:00:04,480
the power cast too so

1501
01:00:08,549 --> 01:00:06,400
let's start at the beginning cut to the

1502
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:08,559
chase peter robbins

1503
01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:10,319
what is that case

1504
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:12,000
of disinformation that we're talking

1505
01:00:17,750 --> 01:00:15,359
about in this okay first it is a book

1506
01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:17,760
that the nice folks at phenomena

1507
01:00:23,589 --> 01:00:21,040
magazine felt was so important that they

1508
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:23,599
decided to publish for me

1509
01:00:29,430 --> 01:00:26,640
online because i had decided in a very

1510
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:29,440
impractical but idealistic way that i

1511
01:00:35,109 --> 01:00:32,160
did not want to profit from the 700 or

1512
01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:35,119
so hours i spent on it because i knew

1513
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:36,640
some yutz was going to accuse me of

1514
01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:39,280
being in it for the money so

1515
01:00:43,510 --> 01:00:41,200
i basically bit the bullet and made it

1516
01:00:44,630 --> 01:00:43,520
available to every reader who wanted to

1517
01:00:47,109 --> 01:00:44,640
for free

1518
01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:47,119
they call it a special report i call it

1519
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:49,680
a book and to cut to the chase and try

1520
01:00:56,950 --> 01:00:53,520
to give his capsule an accurate an idea

1521
01:00:59,270 --> 01:00:56,960
of what this is many people know

1522
01:01:01,829 --> 01:00:59,280
of my involvement as an investigative

1523
01:01:04,390 --> 01:01:01,839
writer in england's uh best known and

1524
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:04,400
best documented incident the rendelsham

1525
01:01:08,549 --> 01:01:06,319
forest ufo

1526
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:08,559
incident which is actually a series of

1527
01:01:12,150 --> 01:01:10,480
events that occurred over three

1528
01:01:14,950 --> 01:01:12,160
consecutive nights

1529
01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:14,960
between christmas and new years of 1980.

1530
01:01:20,230 --> 01:01:17,760
the book that larry warren and i wrote

1531
01:01:22,630 --> 01:01:20,240
on the subject left at eastgate went on

1532
01:01:25,990 --> 01:01:22,640
to become a smash bestseller in the

1533
01:01:28,549 --> 01:01:26,000
united kingdom and really changed a

1534
01:01:30,789 --> 01:01:28,559
number of perceptions about the subject

1535
01:01:33,670 --> 01:01:30,799
in general more specifically the events

1536
01:01:36,150 --> 01:01:33,680
that occurred in suffolk last year my

1537
01:01:39,910 --> 01:01:36,160
colleague gary hasseltein who you know

1538
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:39,920
gary is a now retired yorkshire police

1539
01:01:46,470 --> 01:01:43,119
detective and a specialist in forensic

1540
01:01:49,270 --> 01:01:46,480
evidence in ufo related incidents he

1541
01:01:51,349 --> 01:01:49,280
also publishes a good bi-monthly

1542
01:01:54,309 --> 01:01:51,359
magazine that is available online called

1543
01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:54,319
ufo truth magazine and i'm their

1544
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:56,160
american representative and i write a

1545
01:02:00,950 --> 01:01:57,920
regular column for them since they

1546
01:02:03,829 --> 01:02:00,960
started anyway about a year ago gary

1547
01:02:05,670 --> 01:02:03,839
asked me if i would be interested when

1548
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:05,680
the new book there was a new book we

1549
01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:07,520
were expecting by the two first night

1550
01:02:11,990 --> 01:02:10,079
witnesses was published if rather than

1551
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:12,000
write a column and i choose whatever

1552
01:02:17,829 --> 01:02:14,640
subject i want that i would devote that

1553
01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:17,839
month to a review of the new book and i

1554
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:20,640
said certainly he came back at me

1555
01:02:24,230 --> 01:02:22,000
in a very

1556
01:02:27,030 --> 01:02:24,240
insightful way and said i know that

1557
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:27,040
these witnesses have arrayed themselves

1558
01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:29,920
to a degree against larry warren i like

1559
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:32,000
you believe that

1560
01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:34,400
their former deputy-based commander has

1561
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:37,520
done his best for decades now to drive a

1562
01:02:41,430 --> 01:02:40,559
wedge between these three key witnesses

1563
01:02:43,270 --> 01:02:41,440
and

1564
01:02:45,829 --> 01:02:43,280
that you know there's no love lost

1565
01:02:47,190 --> 01:02:45,839
between you and them

1566
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:47,200
but the

1567
01:02:51,750 --> 01:02:49,280
third author who is now part of the

1568
01:02:54,309 --> 01:02:51,760
project is nick pope who is a long time

1569
01:02:57,030 --> 01:02:54,319
friend and close colleague of yours and

1570
01:02:59,589 --> 01:02:57,040
i made it very clear to gary that i i

1571
01:03:02,230 --> 01:02:59,599
would review the book and would do so

1572
01:03:05,349 --> 01:03:02,240
with as much objectivity as possible

1573
01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:05,359
going out of my way if anything to um

1574
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:07,760
praise them and bring attention to what

1575
01:03:14,150 --> 01:03:10,160
i feel felt were positive aspects of the

1576
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:14,160
book and so this past march

1577
01:03:17,349 --> 01:03:14,960
i

1578
01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:17,359
got myself an advanced copy of the book

1579
01:03:23,270 --> 01:03:20,480
and began to read it uh the book is

1580
01:03:25,829 --> 01:03:23,280
called encounter in rendelsham forest

1581
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:25,839
and um i forget the exact subtitle but

1582
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:28,000
it's appropriate to the book let me just

1583
01:03:31,109 --> 01:03:29,760
do our break here and tell our listeners

1584
01:03:34,309 --> 01:03:31,119
it's encounter

1585
01:03:36,150 --> 01:03:34,319
in rendelsham forest and we had nick

1586
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:36,160
pope and john burroughs on the power

1587
01:03:40,710 --> 01:03:38,720
cast on may 25th of this year we have

1588
01:03:46,549 --> 01:03:40,720
peter robbins with us now with gene and

1589
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:48,390
first came attack of the rockoids and it

1590
01:03:51,750 --> 01:03:50,400
was a critically acclaimed success and

1591
01:03:53,670 --> 01:03:51,760
now there is the coming of the

1592
01:03:55,829 --> 01:03:53,680
protectors a former military

1593
01:03:57,990 --> 01:03:55,839
intelligence man is contacted by a space

1594
01:04:00,630 --> 01:03:58,000
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

1595
01:04:02,230 --> 01:04:00,640
to be a nightmare because evil forces on

1596
01:04:04,390 --> 01:04:02,240
her distant planet are planning to

1597
01:04:06,950 --> 01:04:04,400
conquer the earth this is gripping

1598
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:06,960
science fiction of the classic kind

1599
01:04:10,829 --> 01:04:08,880
attack of the rockoids and the coming of

1600
01:04:13,710 --> 01:04:10,839
the protectors find out more at

1601
01:04:16,230 --> 01:04:13,720
roccohoids.com that's rockoites

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1614
01:04:53,589 --> 01:04:51,520
no time in history have precious metals

1615
01:04:55,910 --> 01:04:53,599
been more important certainly not in my

1616
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:55,920
22 years in the industry the dollar's

1617
01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:58,079
lost over 90 percent of its value in the

1618
01:05:02,950 --> 01:05:00,960
last 60 years no fiat currency has ever

1619
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:02,960
survived the government printing presses

1620
01:05:09,589 --> 01:05:05,520
ours is not immune the time is now to be

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01:05:16,470 --> 01:05:12,390
extension 116. anything tied to the

1622
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:16,480
dollar is at risk cds annuities 401ks

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01:05:21,589 --> 01:05:19,760
iras stocks bonds you name it so decide

1624
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:21,599
do you want to leave a legacy of wealth

1625
01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:23,760
or debt for your family the choice is

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01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:35,109
extension 116. that's

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01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:39,730
be 1-800-686-2237 not reactive call

1628
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1677
01:07:58,230 --> 01:07:54,720
comment or question about the paracast

1678
01:08:01,510 --> 01:07:58,240
send it to news at theparecast.com

1679
01:08:03,349 --> 01:08:01,520
that's news at theparecast.com

1680
01:08:08,829 --> 01:08:03,359
and don't forget to visit our famous

1681
01:08:14,230 --> 01:08:10,710
forum.theparacast.com okay so we have

1682
01:08:16,870 --> 01:08:14,240
peter robbins and now he's focusing on

1683
01:08:19,430 --> 01:08:16,880
his deliberate deception book a case of

1684
01:08:21,669 --> 01:08:19,440
disinformation in the ufo research

1685
01:08:24,390 --> 01:08:21,679
community we reached the point where you

1686
01:08:26,950 --> 01:08:24,400
were mentioning the book that nick pope

1687
01:08:30,149 --> 01:08:26,960
had written with several of the people

1688
01:08:31,990 --> 01:08:30,159
involved in the renisham case john

1689
01:08:34,630 --> 01:08:32,000
burroughs and jim peniston it's

1690
01:08:38,550 --> 01:08:34,640
subtitled this inside story of the

1691
01:08:41,110 --> 01:08:38,560
world's best documented ufo incident

1692
01:08:44,550 --> 01:08:41,120
let's go on well even the title i felt

1693
01:08:45,990 --> 01:08:44,560
was was somewhat braggadocious in that

1694
01:08:46,870 --> 01:08:46,000
jim and john

1695
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:46,880
were

1696
01:08:58,390 --> 01:08:56,080
and sometimes several events on each

1697
01:09:01,269 --> 01:08:58,400
night they keep trying to give the

1698
01:09:04,709 --> 01:09:01,279
impression that their event was the

1699
01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:04,719
event or the key event and in fact it

1700
01:09:08,950 --> 01:09:06,880
was one of a number of events

1701
01:09:11,349 --> 01:09:08,960
what caught me off guard though as i

1702
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:11,359
began to read the book was first

1703
01:09:16,229 --> 01:09:13,440
that nick essentially wrote the book for

1704
01:09:18,709 --> 01:09:16,239
them which i was not prepared for we've

1705
01:09:20,630 --> 01:09:18,719
had wonderful books written by

1706
01:09:22,950 --> 01:09:20,640
witnesses who are not trained writers in

1707
01:09:25,990 --> 01:09:22,960
any number of subjects and there really

1708
01:09:28,390 --> 01:09:26,000
is no substitute for that first-hand

1709
01:09:30,789 --> 01:09:28,400
account of somebody experiencing

1710
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:30,799
something i would point as a very good

1711
01:09:35,590 --> 01:09:33,359
example to fire in the sky which was

1712
01:09:37,990 --> 01:09:35,600
published in 1979

1713
01:09:40,070 --> 01:09:38,000
and written by travis walton it was not

1714
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:40,080
written with a ghostwriter travis took

1715
01:09:44,550 --> 01:09:43,040
his time doing it as somebody without a

1716
01:09:48,470 --> 01:09:44,560
background as a writer and i think he

1717
01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:48,480
did a superb job what nick does is he

1718
01:09:52,229 --> 01:09:51,359
includes statements a paragraph here or

1719
01:09:55,189 --> 01:09:52,239
there

1720
01:09:58,870 --> 01:09:55,199
by jim and john and then they have one

1721
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:58,880
chapter that they write however

1722
01:10:04,310 --> 01:10:01,280
my problem with the book was that as i

1723
01:10:07,830 --> 01:10:04,320
began to read it i saw a pattern

1724
01:10:11,350 --> 01:10:07,840
of completely inaccurate information

1725
01:10:13,830 --> 01:10:11,360
that was woven throughout nick's text

1726
01:10:15,750 --> 01:10:13,840
and the title deliberate deception

1727
01:10:17,669 --> 01:10:15,760
has nothing to do with jim or john and i

1728
01:10:19,590 --> 01:10:17,679
want to be clear about that

1729
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:19,600
it has to do with

1730
01:10:23,350 --> 01:10:22,080
for me the fact that when they

1731
01:10:25,110 --> 01:10:23,360
approached nick

1732
01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:25,120
about co-writing the book

1733
01:10:29,350 --> 01:10:26,880
and helping them tell their story he

1734
01:10:30,630 --> 01:10:29,360
certainly did that but he also took the

1735
01:10:33,590 --> 01:10:30,640
opportunity

1736
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:33,600
to weave a thread of dishonest

1737
01:10:38,790 --> 01:10:36,480
information throughout the book now i am

1738
01:10:42,630 --> 01:10:38,800
nothing if not specific in deliberate

1739
01:10:44,709 --> 01:10:42,640
deception the fact is i recognized it as

1740
01:10:47,189 --> 01:10:44,719
in a way that very few people would have

1741
01:10:49,430 --> 01:10:47,199
otherwise because i saw

1742
01:10:51,189 --> 01:10:49,440
what i had written and what my co-author

1743
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:51,199
had written and alleged

1744
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:52,640
repeatedly

1745
01:10:56,470 --> 01:10:53,520
taken

1746
01:10:58,390 --> 01:10:56,480
never credited and then either

1747
01:10:59,990 --> 01:10:58,400
presented in kind of a truncated or

1748
01:11:03,750 --> 01:11:00,000
incomplete manner

1749
01:11:04,950 --> 01:11:03,760
or a dishonest manner or presented

1750
01:11:07,590 --> 01:11:04,960
without

1751
01:11:10,070 --> 01:11:07,600
the facts attached to it that we include

1752
01:11:12,950 --> 01:11:10,080
and left at east gate my first thoughts

1753
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:12,960
were i must be reading this wrong or i'm

1754
01:11:18,470 --> 01:11:16,320
i've got an overactive imagination or

1755
01:11:21,590 --> 01:11:18,480
this just can't be um we're talking

1756
01:11:23,669 --> 01:11:21,600
about somebody who i counted as a friend

1757
01:11:26,149 --> 01:11:23,679
and a close colleague i don't know how

1758
01:11:27,830 --> 01:11:26,159
many times i i was a house guest of nix

1759
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:27,840
over the many years that he lived in

1760
01:11:29,590 --> 01:11:28,800
london

1761
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:29,600
or

1762
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:32,400
the many you know good personal

1763
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:35,040
friendship memories that i had

1764
01:11:38,470 --> 01:11:37,520
now i never kidded myself i knew that he

1765
01:11:40,550 --> 01:11:38,480
was

1766
01:11:42,550 --> 01:11:40,560
a respected ranking personnel in the

1767
01:11:44,550 --> 01:11:42,560
ministry of defense i'm certainly

1768
01:11:47,669 --> 01:11:44,560
involved to a degree in intelligence and

1769
01:11:49,750 --> 01:11:47,679
security and even when he invited larry

1770
01:11:53,030 --> 01:11:49,760
and i to be his house guests for the

1771
01:11:55,030 --> 01:11:53,040
first time with me sight on scene at the

1772
01:11:58,149 --> 01:11:55,040
beginning and end of our 15 city

1773
01:12:01,590 --> 01:11:58,159
speaking tour we just developed what i

1774
01:12:03,750 --> 01:12:01,600
feel was a very good and warm friendship

1775
01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:03,760
now here's the deal

1776
01:12:10,310 --> 01:12:08,320
nick and i first corresponded in 1992.

1777
01:12:12,470 --> 01:12:10,320
when he was in fact

1778
01:12:14,790 --> 01:12:12,480
in that position and it was only two

1779
01:12:16,149 --> 01:12:14,800
years of the 20 odd years that he was

1780
01:12:19,189 --> 01:12:16,159
with the ministry

1781
01:12:22,229 --> 01:12:19,199
that he occupied that desk where he was

1782
01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:22,239
officially the person looking into ufo

1783
01:12:26,709 --> 01:12:24,800
accounts for her majesty's government i

1784
01:12:29,350 --> 01:12:26,719
received a form letter in response to an

1785
01:12:31,430 --> 01:12:29,360
inquiry i sent which included the now

1786
01:12:33,830 --> 01:12:31,440
highly discredited statement of whatever

1787
01:12:35,430 --> 01:12:33,840
happened was of no defense significance

1788
01:12:37,990 --> 01:12:35,440
but what stuck with me about the form

1789
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:38,000
letter was he ended it by saying and in

1790
01:12:41,910 --> 01:12:39,760
closing good luck to you

1791
01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:41,920
with your book four years later when we

1792
01:12:46,790 --> 01:12:45,040
completed the manuscript and sold it but

1793
01:12:48,950 --> 01:12:46,800
still had nine months or so before it

1794
01:12:50,709 --> 01:12:48,960
was going to be published i reached out

1795
01:12:54,470 --> 01:12:50,719
to him to find out if he wanted to read

1796
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:54,480
a copy of it he did and he supplied us

1797
01:12:58,950 --> 01:12:56,640
the most glowing brilliant supportive

1798
01:13:01,830 --> 01:12:58,960
blurb imaginable the kind of thing that

1799
01:13:04,950 --> 01:13:01,840
an author lives for now i am sensing let

1800
01:13:08,149 --> 01:13:04,960
me say this as you continue a feeling of

1801
01:13:10,870 --> 01:13:08,159
betrayal here at some point well i guess

1802
01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:10,880
that's part of it but yes and no

1803
01:13:14,070 --> 01:13:11,760
if

1804
01:13:14,870 --> 01:13:14,080
i didn't know nick as well as i think i

1805
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:14,880
do

1806
01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:17,360
and know that he is an old-fashioned

1807
01:13:22,790 --> 01:13:20,320
patriot that he loves his country and is

1808
01:13:25,830 --> 01:13:22,800
dedicated to the security of the united

1809
01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:25,840
kingdom in ways that very few people

1810
01:13:30,149 --> 01:13:28,239
i have ever met anywhere are to their

1811
01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:30,159
country for example

1812
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:33,280
nick pope is the only person i know

1813
01:13:37,990 --> 01:13:35,600
who i am convinced would die for the

1814
01:13:39,910 --> 01:13:38,000
queen of england if the situation arose

1815
01:13:42,149 --> 01:13:39,920
and i don't mean that allegorically you

1816
01:13:43,510 --> 01:13:42,159
know like a a dedicated secret service

1817
01:13:44,550 --> 01:13:43,520
person who would take a bullet for the

1818
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:44,560
president

1819
01:13:48,149 --> 01:13:47,040
he is that dedicated to his nation's

1820
01:13:48,870 --> 01:13:48,159
security

1821
01:13:50,550 --> 01:13:48,880
the

1822
01:13:53,350 --> 01:13:50,560
crux lies here

1823
01:13:56,870 --> 01:13:53,360
he actively helped us

1824
01:14:00,229 --> 01:13:56,880
with his efforts with his his celebrity

1825
01:14:02,870 --> 01:14:00,239
with the fact that unasked he reviewed

1826
01:14:05,430 --> 01:14:02,880
our book very positively i might add for

1827
01:14:08,470 --> 01:14:05,440
the ministry of defense's own in-house

1828
01:14:10,149 --> 01:14:08,480
monthly magazine imagine 58 000

1829
01:14:12,470 --> 01:14:10,159
circulation and you can guess some of

1830
01:14:15,430 --> 01:14:12,480
the movers and shakers it went to

1831
01:14:17,110 --> 01:14:15,440
he worked very hard to help us make that

1832
01:14:19,669 --> 01:14:17,120
book the success that it became in the

1833
01:14:21,990 --> 01:14:19,679
united kingdom however when it became

1834
01:14:24,550 --> 01:14:22,000
that success it proved to be very

1835
01:14:26,630 --> 01:14:24,560
embarrassing to offices and agencies

1836
01:14:28,390 --> 01:14:26,640
within her majesty's government

1837
01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:28,400
including the revelation

1838
01:14:32,149 --> 01:14:30,480
which came from larry warren and no one

1839
01:14:34,390 --> 01:14:32,159
else that

1840
01:14:36,950 --> 01:14:34,400
there was a major treaty violation in

1841
01:14:39,669 --> 01:14:36,960
terms of america having nuclear ordnance

1842
01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:39,679
in england at the time and on that base

1843
01:14:43,669 --> 01:14:41,280
he worked around it others have come

1844
01:14:45,510 --> 01:14:43,679
forward to confirm it okay let's get

1845
01:14:47,750 --> 01:14:45,520
into that because that is very

1846
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:47,760
interesting already because obviously

1847
01:14:53,510 --> 01:14:51,600
the us and the uk are bosom buddies

1848
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:53,520
but obviously there have to be treaties

1849
01:14:59,910 --> 01:14:56,400
and agreements governing how they have

1850
01:15:02,149 --> 01:14:59,920
bases or particular installations yes

1851
01:15:04,310 --> 01:15:02,159
and how they work together so obviously

1852
01:15:05,750 --> 01:15:04,320
the intelligence agencies

1853
01:15:07,590 --> 01:15:05,760
have agreements on how they work

1854
01:15:09,990 --> 01:15:07,600
together so here

1855
01:15:11,110 --> 01:15:10,000
what was the violation be more specific

1856
01:15:12,229 --> 01:15:11,120
oh

1857
01:15:13,189 --> 01:15:12,239
yes

1858
01:15:16,630 --> 01:15:13,199
the

1859
01:15:18,790 --> 01:15:16,640
weapons storage area at raf woodbridge

1860
01:15:21,669 --> 01:15:18,800
in suffolk i'm sorry raf bentwaters

1861
01:15:24,149 --> 01:15:21,679
where the men involved overwhelmingly

1862
01:15:25,270 --> 01:15:24,159
were stationed uh john jim and larry

1863
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:25,280
included

1864
01:15:31,590 --> 01:15:29,040
had the largest repository of nuclear

1865
01:15:34,870 --> 01:15:31,600
ordinance in the nato establishment that

1866
01:15:36,709 --> 01:15:34,880
i'm aware of if i'm wrong

1867
01:15:39,590 --> 01:15:36,719
i'd like somebody to establish it one

1868
01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:39,600
person who took larry's account very

1869
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:41,760
seriously and became our greatest

1870
01:15:47,590 --> 01:15:44,560
champion in the uk until he passed about

1871
01:15:51,110 --> 01:15:47,600
a dozen or 15 years ago was admiral lord

1872
01:15:53,510 --> 01:15:51,120
peter hill norton hill norton was

1873
01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:53,520
a former admiral of the fleet i.e the

1874
01:15:57,990 --> 01:15:55,440
highest-ranking naval officer in the

1875
01:15:59,990 --> 01:15:58,000
british navy he went on to become the

1876
01:16:03,189 --> 01:16:00,000
chief of the

1877
01:16:05,110 --> 01:16:03,199
ministry of defense um the

1878
01:16:07,350 --> 01:16:05,120
essentially the equivalent of a colin

1879
01:16:09,430 --> 01:16:07,360
powell or somebody in that position in

1880
01:16:12,229 --> 01:16:09,440
the department of defense and when he

1881
01:16:14,550 --> 01:16:12,239
retired he became a member of parliament

1882
01:16:17,910 --> 01:16:14,560
we spoke with him i have correspondence

1883
01:16:20,790 --> 01:16:17,920
from him he took this very seriously and

1884
01:16:22,870 --> 01:16:20,800
in fact and is easily verifiable and

1885
01:16:25,030 --> 01:16:22,880
included both in left at east gate and

1886
01:16:27,270 --> 01:16:25,040
in deliberate deception well let's go

1887
01:16:29,669 --> 01:16:27,280
into that let's go into that in our next

1888
01:16:31,510 --> 01:16:29,679
segment okay you got it all right peter

1889
01:16:36,870 --> 01:16:31,520
robbins with gina and chris you're in

1890
01:16:41,830 --> 01:16:38,950
independently leading the way for the

1891
01:16:46,550 --> 01:16:41,840
nation compelling talk for every

1892
01:16:48,390 --> 01:16:46,560
political persuasion we are g c n

1893
01:16:50,790 --> 01:16:48,400
graphic converter is the image

1894
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1895
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1896
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01:17:03,430 --> 01:17:01,120
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1899
01:17:05,510 --> 01:17:03,440
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1900
01:17:07,830 --> 01:17:05,520
could use it for slideshows you could

1901
01:17:10,310 --> 01:17:07,840
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1902
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1914
01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:41,640
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1915
01:17:51,830 --> 01:17:50,229
you pick up the receiver with your heart

1916
01:17:53,669 --> 01:17:51,840
racing and sweat dripping from your

1917
01:17:55,110 --> 01:17:53,679
forehead you finally muster the courage

1918
01:17:57,510 --> 01:17:55,120
to dial the number to call into your

1919
01:18:00,070 --> 01:17:57,520
favorite talk radio show it rings once

1920
01:18:01,189 --> 01:18:00,080
twice and then hello it's gcn what's

1921
01:18:02,950 --> 01:18:01,199
your name in the state you're calling

1922
01:18:05,189 --> 01:18:02,960
from surprised you got through you

1923
01:18:07,189 --> 01:18:05,199
squeak out jason from minnesota please

1924
01:18:09,110 --> 01:18:07,199
hold as you patiently wait for your turn

1925
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:09,120
you begin to daydream about being a

1926
01:18:13,510 --> 01:18:11,040
famous talk radio host and what it would

1927
01:18:15,510 --> 01:18:13,520
be like to have your own show jason from

1928
01:18:17,750 --> 01:18:15,520
minnesota you're up millions of loyal

1929
01:18:20,149 --> 01:18:17,760
listeners worldwide waiting to call and

1930
01:18:23,380 --> 01:18:20,159
talk to you color are you there cheering

1931
01:18:32,950 --> 01:18:23,390
crowds around you calling out your name

1932
01:18:37,910 --> 01:18:35,030
you're listening to right now online at

1933
01:18:39,590 --> 01:18:37,920
gcnlive.com click on the community link

1934
01:18:41,669 --> 01:18:39,600
engage with other listeners ask

1935
01:18:44,149 --> 01:18:41,679
questions start debates don't agree with

1936
01:18:47,669 --> 01:18:44,159
the host let them know be a part of the

1937
01:18:51,189 --> 01:18:47,679
community at gcnlive.com

1938
01:18:53,030 --> 01:18:51,199
ouch my back is out again hi dr ortman

1939
01:18:55,669 --> 01:18:53,040
with wellspring spinal care if you're

1940
01:18:57,510 --> 01:18:55,679
experiencing neck mid or lower back pain

1941
01:18:59,430 --> 01:18:57,520
this information is for you one of the

1942
01:19:01,430 --> 01:18:59,440
complaints that i hear is patients

1943
01:19:03,189 --> 01:19:01,440
receive their typical adjustment only

1944
01:19:05,350 --> 01:19:03,199
having to repeat them as the pain

1945
01:19:07,270 --> 01:19:05,360
returns putting the bones back in place

1946
01:19:09,669 --> 01:19:07,280
is only half of the battle at wellspring

1947
01:19:11,910 --> 01:19:09,679
spinal care we have the entire solution

1948
01:19:14,149 --> 01:19:11,920
we use the nuka approach utilizing

1949
01:19:16,470 --> 01:19:14,159
three-dimensional x-rays and gentle

1950
01:19:18,229 --> 01:19:16,480
touch technology to deliver specific

1951
01:19:20,229 --> 01:19:18,239
correction we then design a custom

1952
01:19:22,390 --> 01:19:20,239
nutritional supplement program which

1953
01:19:24,470 --> 01:19:22,400
provides essential nutrients targeting

1954
01:19:26,310 --> 01:19:24,480
the areas of concern with a nucca

1955
01:19:28,149 --> 01:19:26,320
approach and proper nutrition you'll be

1956
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:28,159
on your way to a faster and more

1957
01:19:32,470 --> 01:19:29,840
permanent recovery to get you on the

1958
01:19:34,830 --> 01:19:32,480
road to wellness visit drortman.com

1959
01:19:40,630 --> 01:19:34,840
that's dr o

1960
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:44,149
that's 952-303-9124

1961
01:19:48,550 --> 01:19:46,390
wellspring spinal care chiropractic done

1962
01:19:50,630 --> 01:19:48,560
right

1963
01:19:52,709 --> 01:19:50,640
this alert just came in this special

1964
01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:52,719
announcement is for business owners and

1965
01:19:57,590 --> 01:19:54,800
leaders of organizations who've been

1966
01:19:59,590 --> 01:19:57,600
waiting for the right time to build

1967
01:20:01,590 --> 01:19:59,600
general steel has made it impossible to

1968
01:20:03,750 --> 01:20:01,600
wait any longer with rock bottom prices

1969
01:20:05,990 --> 01:20:03,760
that could save you thousands that's

1970
01:20:08,149 --> 01:20:06,000
right general steele america's leader in

1971
01:20:10,070 --> 01:20:08,159
pre-engineered structures is offering

1972
01:20:12,470 --> 01:20:10,080
buildings at prices you will never see

1973
01:20:14,229 --> 01:20:12,480
again don't miss these prices a fifty by

1974
01:20:15,830 --> 01:20:14,239
one hundred for thirty five thousand

1975
01:20:17,270 --> 01:20:15,840
dollars you heard right that's five

1976
01:20:19,110 --> 01:20:17,280
thousand square feet for thirty five

1977
01:20:21,510 --> 01:20:19,120
thousand dollars manufacturers if you

1978
01:20:24,229 --> 01:20:21,520
need a larger building try a 100 by 100

1979
01:20:25,990 --> 01:20:24,239
commercial building for 129 000. you

1980
01:20:28,310 --> 01:20:26,000
can't afford to rent with these prices

1981
01:20:31,110 --> 01:20:28,320
imagine a 70 by 100 foot church building

1982
01:20:33,030 --> 01:20:31,120
for under 69 000 with the economy

1983
01:20:35,350 --> 01:20:33,040
improving and interest rates still at

1984
01:20:39,590 --> 01:20:35,360
historic lows you can't afford to wait

1985
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:39,600
so call 866 91 steel lock in your price

1986
01:20:53,189 --> 01:20:51,510
[Music]

1987
01:20:55,590 --> 01:20:53,199
this is leslie kane and i'm with the

1988
01:20:59,510 --> 01:20:55,600
coalition for freedom of information and

1989
01:21:03,110 --> 01:21:00,390
oh

1990
01:21:05,189 --> 01:21:03,120
the tail being woven here is simply

1991
01:21:07,270 --> 01:21:05,199
fascinating with peter robbins and the

1992
01:21:10,070 --> 01:21:07,280
book is deliberate deception which is a

1993
01:21:11,510 --> 01:21:10,080
free book available in seven parts and

1994
01:21:13,790 --> 01:21:11,520
we'll get you the link

1995
01:21:15,910 --> 01:21:13,800
from our forums and also from

1996
01:21:18,390 --> 01:21:15,920
thepowercast.com so you can get a copy

1997
01:21:23,350 --> 01:21:18,400
continue please sir yeah what hill

1998
01:21:25,990 --> 01:21:23,360
norton did was on october 28 1997

1999
01:21:28,470 --> 01:21:26,000
he walked out onto the floor of the

2000
01:21:30,709 --> 01:21:28,480
house of lourdes with his copy of the

2001
01:21:33,430 --> 01:21:30,719
hardcover edition of left at east gate

2002
01:21:35,350 --> 01:21:33,440
in hand and went one to one

2003
01:21:38,950 --> 01:21:35,360
with lord gilbert who was then the

2004
01:21:41,990 --> 01:21:38,960
secretary for defense and asked him four

2005
01:21:44,790 --> 01:21:42,000
direct questions taken out of his copy

2006
01:21:47,430 --> 01:21:44,800
of left at east gate one about the

2007
01:21:49,510 --> 01:21:47,440
nuclear presence one about beams of

2008
01:21:52,470 --> 01:21:49,520
light being shown down from these

2009
01:21:55,510 --> 01:21:52,480
unknowns into the weapons storage area

2010
01:21:58,390 --> 01:21:55,520
another about a suicide of one of the

2011
01:22:00,629 --> 01:21:58,400
men who was involved as a witness

2012
01:22:01,990 --> 01:22:00,639
i should say that nick brings these

2013
01:22:04,229 --> 01:22:02,000
points up

2014
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:04,239
in i'll say his book

2015
01:22:08,950 --> 01:22:06,719
without again crediting the source

2016
01:22:12,149 --> 01:22:08,960
and then writing it up in a manner that

2017
01:22:14,790 --> 01:22:12,159
suggests that larry warren was a lone

2018
01:22:18,470 --> 01:22:14,800
wolf or the only claimant or the only

2019
01:22:20,870 --> 01:22:18,480
person to have uh allege a certain thing

2020
01:22:24,229 --> 01:22:20,880
when anything could be further from the

2021
01:22:26,149 --> 01:22:24,239
truth this is first rate disinformation

2022
01:22:29,270 --> 01:22:26,159
when i say disinformation i mean a very

2023
01:22:31,430 --> 01:22:29,280
skillful blending of fact fiction and

2024
01:22:32,390 --> 01:22:31,440
confabulation to produce a certain

2025
01:22:39,110 --> 01:22:32,400
result

2026
01:22:41,669 --> 01:22:39,120
to read their book and not come away

2027
01:22:43,510 --> 01:22:41,679
with this sense that whatever else their

2028
01:22:45,750 --> 01:22:43,520
book includes and believe me there is

2029
01:22:47,350 --> 01:22:45,760
bloody little because it was fully

2030
01:22:49,510 --> 01:22:47,360
vetted by

2031
01:22:51,910 --> 01:22:49,520
censors for the ministry of defense and

2032
01:22:55,430 --> 01:22:51,920
the department of defense there is

2033
01:22:58,470 --> 01:22:55,440
nothing literally nothing new in their

2034
01:23:01,350 --> 01:22:58,480
book except to say that we learn that

2035
01:23:03,430 --> 01:23:01,360
john and jim's attorney is going after

2036
01:23:05,510 --> 01:23:03,440
their air force records as well he

2037
01:23:08,310 --> 01:23:05,520
should everything else

2038
01:23:10,390 --> 01:23:08,320
we published 17 years before that

2039
01:23:12,470 --> 01:23:10,400
but hill norton

2040
01:23:14,950 --> 01:23:12,480
absolutely understood and took very

2041
01:23:18,470 --> 01:23:14,960
seriously that there was this nuclear

2042
01:23:20,790 --> 01:23:18,480
treaty violation that for starters

2043
01:23:22,229 --> 01:23:20,800
nick goes out of his way to suggest that

2044
01:23:25,669 --> 01:23:22,239
larry warren

2045
01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:25,679
is the only person to um even suggest

2046
01:23:29,430 --> 01:23:27,600
that there was a suicide

2047
01:23:33,590 --> 01:23:29,440
well he had good cause to do it it was

2048
01:23:36,390 --> 01:23:33,600
his roommate and larry and a

2049
01:23:39,270 --> 01:23:36,400
another uh air force personnel were the

2050
01:23:41,270 --> 01:23:39,280
people who were the ones to respond

2051
01:23:43,910 --> 01:23:41,280
when he uh

2052
01:23:46,310 --> 01:23:43,920
called in on his radio on a night that

2053
01:23:47,830 --> 01:23:46,320
he was out on the tarmac guarding in a

2054
01:23:49,830 --> 01:23:47,840
remote area and saying he couldn't take

2055
01:23:52,390 --> 01:23:49,840
it anymore they were the ones who found

2056
01:23:55,110 --> 01:23:52,400
his body hill norton took it very

2057
01:23:57,350 --> 01:23:55,120
seriously so seriously that he asked the

2058
01:24:00,550 --> 01:23:57,360
question in parliament

2059
01:24:03,350 --> 01:24:00,560
nick dismisses it simply because he says

2060
01:24:05,189 --> 01:24:03,360
it was a rumor and john or jim have no

2061
01:24:06,709 --> 01:24:05,199
memory of it well it's because it was

2062
01:24:07,750 --> 01:24:06,719
very well covered up

2063
01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:07,760
for me

2064
01:24:12,629 --> 01:24:10,400
the most unforgivable part of this

2065
01:24:14,149 --> 01:24:12,639
is there is a tone of almost sympathetic

2066
01:24:16,229 --> 01:24:14,159
condescension

2067
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:16,239
toward larry poor larry you know he's

2068
01:24:21,510 --> 01:24:18,960
very upset maybe he um these are all

2069
01:24:23,669 --> 01:24:21,520
implanted memories and i will say here

2070
01:24:25,910 --> 01:24:23,679
and jim and john and larry i know would

2071
01:24:27,910 --> 01:24:25,920
be the first to support me on this there

2072
01:24:31,110 --> 01:24:27,920
are certain memories that each of them

2073
01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:31,120
individually have that they are very

2074
01:24:35,910 --> 01:24:33,360
clear that they are not sure whether

2075
01:24:39,030 --> 01:24:35,920
they are implanted or actual

2076
01:24:41,510 --> 01:24:39,040
but after reading the book and seeing

2077
01:24:43,990 --> 01:24:41,520
the claims that were being made and

2078
01:24:46,950 --> 01:24:44,000
understanding

2079
01:24:51,669 --> 01:24:46,960
how it was only our book that was being

2080
01:24:55,830 --> 01:24:51,679
singled out to be dismissed and only

2081
01:24:57,350 --> 01:24:55,840
larry warren's account that was being

2082
01:25:00,470 --> 01:24:57,360
looked down on

2083
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:00,480
is something that could not be trusted

2084
01:25:05,110 --> 01:25:02,080
and again

2085
01:25:07,669 --> 01:25:05,120
each depiction of larry is done in an

2086
01:25:10,229 --> 01:25:07,679
extremely dishonest way

2087
01:25:12,149 --> 01:25:10,239
but skillfully in other words i can't

2088
01:25:14,790 --> 01:25:12,159
even call it plagiarism because

2089
01:25:18,470 --> 01:25:14,800
everything he steals from our book

2090
01:25:20,229 --> 01:25:18,480
he twists or turns or includes in such

2091
01:25:23,030 --> 01:25:20,239
an incomplete manner

2092
01:25:27,189 --> 01:25:23,040
that it no longer fits the active

2093
01:25:29,669 --> 01:25:27,199
definition of shame the other thing is

2094
01:25:31,990 --> 01:25:29,679
why would somebody do this

2095
01:25:33,669 --> 01:25:32,000
nick is now officially retired and has

2096
01:25:36,070 --> 01:25:33,679
been for several years he lives in

2097
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:36,080
america he's married to an american

2098
01:25:40,709 --> 01:25:38,880
and i want to be 100 percent clear here

2099
01:25:43,590 --> 01:25:40,719
i wish nick pope well

2100
01:25:46,390 --> 01:25:43,600
he is a nice guy i will always have good

2101
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:46,400
memories of our long friendship

2102
01:25:52,629 --> 01:25:49,920
i hope he has a long and successful life

2103
01:25:56,149 --> 01:25:52,639
makes lots of money and is happy that

2104
01:25:58,790 --> 01:25:56,159
understood nick is a disinformation

2105
01:26:00,629 --> 01:25:58,800
operative he did the same thing to colin

2106
01:26:02,629 --> 01:26:00,639
andrews some years ago he's done it in

2107
01:26:04,790 --> 01:26:02,639
smaller ways to various colleagues and

2108
01:26:07,990 --> 01:26:04,800
people over the years i don't feel he

2109
01:26:10,709 --> 01:26:08,000
can be trusted to put forward honest

2110
01:26:13,110 --> 01:26:10,719
views on the ufo phenomenon i think he

2111
01:26:15,430 --> 01:26:13,120
should be out of the work i think again

2112
01:26:18,950 --> 01:26:15,440
he should do whatever he wants to make a

2113
01:26:22,390 --> 01:26:18,960
living but i will never trust him again

2114
01:26:25,270 --> 01:26:22,400
and where i am angry or feel

2115
01:26:27,510 --> 01:26:25,280
he said betrayed really isn't the word

2116
01:26:29,910 --> 01:26:27,520
i think that nick is such a dedicated

2117
01:26:31,030 --> 01:26:29,920
person in terms of the career that he

2118
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:31,040
chose

2119
01:26:36,470 --> 01:26:33,760
that nothing is more important to him

2120
01:26:38,870 --> 01:26:36,480
and possibly even family than the safety

2121
01:26:41,830 --> 01:26:38,880
and security of her majesty's government

2122
01:26:43,830 --> 01:26:41,840
and as the years passed from the time

2123
01:26:45,830 --> 01:26:43,840
that he was there for us

2124
01:26:48,550 --> 01:26:45,840
as a friend and a colleague who worked

2125
01:26:51,110 --> 01:26:48,560
actively to make our book a best seller

2126
01:26:53,669 --> 01:26:51,120
i should also say that our book came out

2127
01:26:56,149 --> 01:26:53,679
within a week or so of his first book so

2128
01:26:58,629 --> 01:26:56,159
in doing so he was actually

2129
01:27:00,149 --> 01:26:58,639
helping us gain readers and if somebody

2130
01:27:01,270 --> 01:27:00,159
was going to decide to buy one book or

2131
01:27:04,629 --> 01:27:01,280
the other

2132
01:27:06,070 --> 01:27:04,639
he was doing something extraordinarily

2133
01:27:07,350 --> 01:27:06,080
giving or

2134
01:27:09,669 --> 01:27:07,360
selfless

2135
01:27:13,189 --> 01:27:09,679
but i think as the years continued to

2136
01:27:15,510 --> 01:27:13,199
pass and his position at the ministry

2137
01:27:16,310 --> 01:27:15,520
continued to grow his responsibilities

2138
01:27:19,110 --> 01:27:16,320
grew

2139
01:27:21,189 --> 01:27:19,120
he had second thoughts about

2140
01:27:22,870 --> 01:27:21,199
having assisted us and again in a

2141
01:27:25,669 --> 01:27:22,880
blowback way

2142
01:27:27,510 --> 01:27:25,679
to cause embarrassment to her majesty's

2143
01:27:29,910 --> 01:27:27,520
government the question for me comes

2144
01:27:32,629 --> 01:27:29,920
down to three possibilities uh gene and

2145
01:27:34,470 --> 01:27:32,639
chris number one did he do this of his

2146
01:27:35,830 --> 01:27:34,480
own volition to

2147
01:27:37,590 --> 01:27:35,840
kind of level

2148
01:27:42,310 --> 01:27:37,600
the karma there or

2149
01:27:44,950 --> 01:27:42,320
to try to do something to uh make up for

2150
01:27:46,950 --> 01:27:44,960
his part in helping our book become the

2151
01:27:49,990 --> 01:27:46,960
success it became or

2152
01:27:51,110 --> 01:27:50,000
was he asked to do same or was he

2153
01:27:54,070 --> 01:27:51,120
ordered to

2154
01:27:57,030 --> 01:27:54,080
now yes he is retired but only an

2155
01:27:59,110 --> 01:27:57,040
extremely naive person would assume once

2156
01:28:01,830 --> 01:27:59,120
a spook always spooky

2157
01:28:03,910 --> 01:28:01,840
maybe um there are jobs there are

2158
01:28:06,550 --> 01:28:03,920
positions that certain people never

2159
01:28:09,110 --> 01:28:06,560
fully retire from and it could be the

2160
01:28:10,709 --> 01:28:09,120
cia mi6 the mob

2161
01:28:11,850 --> 01:28:10,719
am i um

2162
01:28:13,030 --> 01:28:11,860
five um

2163
01:28:16,390 --> 01:28:13,040
[Music]

2164
01:28:18,390 --> 01:28:16,400
you know um where there is a loyalty

2165
01:28:21,830 --> 01:28:18,400
where you are an asset in place where

2166
01:28:23,110 --> 01:28:21,840
you remember the old boys network um

2167
01:28:25,669 --> 01:28:23,120
i can't

2168
01:28:26,950 --> 01:28:25,679
figure out any other possibility and

2169
01:28:28,870 --> 01:28:26,960
because

2170
01:28:31,270 --> 01:28:28,880
nick is nick

2171
01:28:34,310 --> 01:28:31,280
and takes his security oath as binding

2172
01:28:37,350 --> 01:28:34,320
for life and he not i

2173
01:28:39,669 --> 01:28:37,360
refers to his government masters as a

2174
01:28:41,030 --> 01:28:39,679
phrase twice in their book which i

2175
01:28:43,990 --> 01:28:41,040
thought was a rather

2176
01:28:46,470 --> 01:28:44,000
shocking choice of words but he does see

2177
01:28:48,470 --> 01:28:46,480
himself as subservient to his government

2178
01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:48,480
masters and

2179
01:28:54,470 --> 01:28:51,120
he did what he did not because he

2180
01:28:56,790 --> 01:28:54,480
doesn't like me or larry in fact i think

2181
01:28:59,750 --> 01:28:56,800
and i have no way of knowing he may part

2182
01:29:01,510 --> 01:28:59,760
of him may feel quite bad about this um

2183
01:29:03,350 --> 01:29:01,520
i think i'd like to think that our

2184
01:29:05,510 --> 01:29:03,360
friendship was valuable to him as well

2185
01:29:07,830 --> 01:29:05,520
as to me you know i want to bring

2186
01:29:10,149 --> 01:29:07,840
something to the table here something

2187
01:29:12,629 --> 01:29:10,159
that happened a long long time ago and i

2188
01:29:15,430 --> 01:29:12,639
wonder if there's any connection in the

2189
01:29:17,750 --> 01:29:15,440
overall sense of what was done not in

2190
01:29:19,430 --> 01:29:17,760
the individuals involved yeah so we have

2191
01:29:23,189 --> 01:29:19,440
this very famous book

2192
01:29:25,590 --> 01:29:23,199
from the 1950s ufo book the report on

2193
01:29:28,629 --> 01:29:25,600
ufos unidentified flying objects from

2194
01:29:31,990 --> 01:29:28,639
edward rupelt oh yeah okay the book came

2195
01:29:33,910 --> 01:29:32,000
out in 1956 as i recall i was there at

2196
01:29:35,669 --> 01:29:33,920
this particular point in time i'm old as

2197
01:29:38,790 --> 01:29:35,679
the hills well i know where you're going

2198
01:29:40,790 --> 01:29:38,800
with this one gene okay so now

2199
01:29:42,229 --> 01:29:40,800
two or three years later but i think

2200
01:29:44,390 --> 01:29:42,239
just about the point of his death or

2201
01:29:46,310 --> 01:29:44,400
after his death he was in his late 30s

2202
01:29:48,310 --> 01:29:46,320
when he died of a heart condition

2203
01:29:49,270 --> 01:29:48,320
he comes out with a revised version of

2204
01:29:52,149 --> 01:29:49,280
the book

2205
01:29:54,629 --> 01:29:52,159
three more chapters yes at the end of

2206
01:29:57,270 --> 01:29:54,639
those three chapters he concludes

2207
01:29:59,510 --> 01:29:57,280
that after conveying the impression that

2208
01:30:02,229 --> 01:29:59,520
he pretty much bought into

2209
01:30:05,270 --> 01:30:02,239
ufos bought into the possibility of

2210
01:30:07,990 --> 01:30:05,280
being interplanetary he now says

2211
01:30:09,030 --> 01:30:08,000
using the words do you think ufos are

2212
01:30:11,110 --> 01:30:09,040
real

2213
01:30:13,669 --> 01:30:11,120
he uses this phrase and i think i got

2214
01:30:15,030 --> 01:30:13,679
the quote almost perfect here

2215
01:30:17,750 --> 01:30:15,040
and we'll go into more of this in the

2216
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:17,760
next segment the quote is

2217
01:30:23,430 --> 01:30:20,400
i'm sure they don't and goes on to

2218
01:30:25,990 --> 01:30:23,440
explain why he thinks ufos

2219
01:30:27,590 --> 01:30:26,000
are not real and are just conventional

2220
01:30:30,310 --> 01:30:27,600
objects let me get into more of this in

2221
01:30:36,470 --> 01:30:30,320
a moment peter robbins joins us with

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2321
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2322
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2323
01:34:49,350 --> 01:34:44,199
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2324
01:34:54,390 --> 01:34:51,270
hello this is john burroughs one of the

2325
01:34:56,229 --> 01:34:54,400
witnesses to the rendelsome ufo incident

2326
01:35:00,010 --> 01:34:56,239
you're listening to the paracast the

2327
01:35:05,030 --> 01:35:00,020
gold standard of paranormal radio

2328
01:35:10,070 --> 01:35:07,189
so i'm talking here about the change

2329
01:35:12,470 --> 01:35:10,080
around involving the late edward rupelt

2330
01:35:15,189 --> 01:35:12,480
and how that might relate to similar

2331
01:35:18,550 --> 01:35:15,199
behavior maybe on the part of nick pope

2332
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:18,560
so in one of major donald kehoe's books

2333
01:35:21,669 --> 01:35:20,880
he mentions

2334
01:35:23,830 --> 01:35:21,679
this

2335
01:35:26,229 --> 01:35:23,840
sudden turnaround where three chapters

2336
01:35:28,950 --> 01:35:26,239
of the book contradicts the previous 20

2337
01:35:32,470 --> 01:35:28,960
or 25. and he says

2338
01:35:34,550 --> 01:35:32,480
quoting supposedly captain rupelt saying

2339
01:35:36,870 --> 01:35:34,560
that he was under a lot of pressure from

2340
01:35:37,830 --> 01:35:36,880
his air force masters

2341
01:35:39,510 --> 01:35:37,840
to

2342
01:35:40,629 --> 01:35:39,520
backtrack

2343
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:40,639
on

2344
01:35:45,669 --> 01:35:42,400
having a best-selling book that

2345
01:35:48,470 --> 01:35:45,679
basically demonstrated ufo reality and

2346
01:35:51,669 --> 01:35:48,480
this was the way he did it so

2347
01:35:54,310 --> 01:35:51,679
can we assume them that nick pope wrote

2348
01:35:55,110 --> 01:35:54,320
this book with peniston and burroughs

2349
01:35:57,750 --> 01:35:55,120
help

2350
01:36:00,709 --> 01:35:57,760
to basically cast aspersions

2351
01:36:02,629 --> 01:36:00,719
on the rendleship case to hide key

2352
01:36:04,870 --> 01:36:02,639
information maybe the same thing that

2353
01:36:07,669 --> 01:36:04,880
happened to rupelt in the 50s

2354
01:36:11,189 --> 01:36:07,679
i think there's a parallel to it

2355
01:36:13,669 --> 01:36:11,199
i think you're spot on in

2356
01:36:15,669 --> 01:36:13,679
your opinion and perception

2357
01:36:19,750 --> 01:36:15,679
of why rupell

2358
01:36:21,350 --> 01:36:19,760
redacted and changed and backed up and

2359
01:36:23,030 --> 01:36:21,360
oh gee did i say they were real no

2360
01:36:24,870 --> 01:36:23,040
they're really not real

2361
01:36:27,430 --> 01:36:24,880
this was a good and decent you know

2362
01:36:29,270 --> 01:36:27,440
american air force officer

2363
01:36:31,510 --> 01:36:29,280
pledged to the security of his country

2364
01:36:32,870 --> 01:36:31,520
and when the heat came down

2365
01:36:34,790 --> 01:36:32,880
he responded

2366
01:36:37,270 --> 01:36:34,800
by the same token i don't think that

2367
01:36:39,590 --> 01:36:37,280
charles halt is some evil person i think

2368
01:36:42,550 --> 01:36:39,600
there's pressure on him and always has

2369
01:36:44,470 --> 01:36:42,560
been since larry first outed him there's

2370
01:36:47,189 --> 01:36:44,480
no other way to say it larry was the one

2371
01:36:48,709 --> 01:36:47,199
larry warren to put all those names on

2372
01:36:51,270 --> 01:36:48,719
the record without their permission

2373
01:36:53,910 --> 01:36:51,280
going back to 1982

2374
01:36:55,910 --> 01:36:53,920
it certainly was not an asset to mr

2375
01:36:56,790 --> 01:36:55,920
halt's personal life or professional

2376
01:36:58,709 --> 01:36:56,800
life

2377
01:37:01,030 --> 01:36:58,719
and i think nick pope was just

2378
01:37:03,990 --> 01:37:01,040
responding either to

2379
01:37:07,189 --> 01:37:04,000
self-assigned pressure or something

2380
01:37:09,669 --> 01:37:07,199
actual and i'm not over dramatizing here

2381
01:37:11,830 --> 01:37:09,679
i think that he will always be

2382
01:37:14,550 --> 01:37:11,840
proud to have a connection

2383
01:37:17,430 --> 01:37:14,560
to the ministry of defense and his very

2384
01:37:20,390 --> 01:37:17,440
distinguished career there also be aware

2385
01:37:22,229 --> 01:37:20,400
that unlike the department of defense

2386
01:37:23,910 --> 01:37:22,239
ministry officials have a full

2387
01:37:25,990 --> 01:37:23,920
equivalent rank

2388
01:37:27,830 --> 01:37:26,000
military rank and

2389
01:37:30,790 --> 01:37:27,840
despite the fact that you know you meet

2390
01:37:32,629 --> 01:37:30,800
nick at a conference and um he's very

2391
01:37:34,870 --> 01:37:32,639
accessible and very down to earth he's

2392
01:37:37,030 --> 01:37:34,880
got a great sense of humor great guy to

2393
01:37:40,310 --> 01:37:37,040
have a beer with he is a lieutenant

2394
01:37:42,390 --> 01:37:40,320
colonel in the british military and

2395
01:37:45,430 --> 01:37:42,400
is now in that sense a retired

2396
01:37:47,430 --> 01:37:45,440
lieutenant colonel on a full pension i

2397
01:37:50,629 --> 01:37:47,440
would hope based on his long years of

2398
01:37:52,470 --> 01:37:50,639
dedicated work also be aware

2399
01:37:55,910 --> 01:37:52,480
why would he have helped us so much when

2400
01:37:59,590 --> 01:37:55,920
he did well our book was published in

2401
01:38:01,669 --> 01:37:59,600
england in june of 1997

2402
01:38:04,870 --> 01:38:01,679
the 50th anniversary of kenneth arnold

2403
01:38:06,950 --> 01:38:04,880
the 50th anniversary of roswell a summer

2404
01:38:10,790 --> 01:38:06,960
when the western world went a little bit

2405
01:38:13,750 --> 01:38:10,800
ufo crazy and it would not surprise me

2406
01:38:17,030 --> 01:38:13,760
that in those months even the ministry

2407
01:38:17,910 --> 01:38:17,040
was willing to cut slack and allow him

2408
01:38:20,229 --> 01:38:17,920
to

2409
01:38:23,189 --> 01:38:20,239
develop more of a presence in the ufo

2410
01:38:25,350 --> 01:38:23,199
community a world where he has been

2411
01:38:28,390 --> 01:38:25,360
welcomed and where he has been you know

2412
01:38:29,430 --> 01:38:28,400
a very well known and respected figure

2413
01:38:34,470 --> 01:38:29,440
and

2414
01:38:36,950 --> 01:38:34,480
good colleagueships with various people

2415
01:38:39,470 --> 01:38:36,960
but it was a funny window

2416
01:38:43,270 --> 01:38:39,480
and again perhaps a time when

2417
01:38:45,750 --> 01:38:43,280
overenthusiasm was the name of the game

2418
01:38:48,709 --> 01:38:45,760
his first book brilliant title

2419
01:38:50,870 --> 01:38:48,719
open skies closed minds was simon and

2420
01:38:53,109 --> 01:38:50,880
schuster and that summer my god you

2421
01:38:55,350 --> 01:38:53,119
couldn't walk down a street in london

2422
01:38:57,189 --> 01:38:55,360
without seeing you know say every sixth

2423
01:38:59,669 --> 01:38:57,199
big red bus going by with a huge

2424
01:39:01,990 --> 01:38:59,679
broadside of it or huge ads in the

2425
01:39:04,790 --> 01:39:02,000
underground it was a very well promoted

2426
01:39:08,229 --> 01:39:04,800
book and his presence as

2427
01:39:11,350 --> 01:39:08,239
a ufologist as somebody who was a

2428
01:39:13,109 --> 01:39:11,360
official who was allowed to speak about

2429
01:39:15,109 --> 01:39:13,119
this was

2430
01:39:17,430 --> 01:39:15,119
impossible to ignore

2431
01:39:20,790 --> 01:39:17,440
so basically he was the british edward

2432
01:39:22,709 --> 01:39:20,800
rupelt well yes now one thing hiding in

2433
01:39:25,750 --> 01:39:22,719
plain sight i've always agreed to

2434
01:39:28,149 --> 01:39:25,760
disagree on was i have always felt that

2435
01:39:31,030 --> 01:39:28,159
i forget the exact dead signation air

2436
01:39:32,390 --> 01:39:31,040
desk as2 or something like that

2437
01:39:34,550 --> 01:39:32,400
nick always

2438
01:39:36,790 --> 01:39:34,560
said that this was the

2439
01:39:38,709 --> 01:39:36,800
position he was the person in the

2440
01:39:41,030 --> 01:39:38,719
government who looked into these things

2441
01:39:44,070 --> 01:39:41,040
for those two years and when he left the

2442
01:39:46,470 --> 01:39:44,080
next person was that person and so on my

2443
01:39:48,550 --> 01:39:46,480
feeling was and i'm not alone in it but

2444
01:39:50,709 --> 01:39:48,560
there are certainly other individuals

2445
01:39:52,390 --> 01:39:50,719
whose names we don't know who are

2446
01:39:54,709 --> 01:39:52,400
cleared to know a great deal more than

2447
01:39:57,510 --> 01:39:54,719
him or were more deeply involved in the

2448
01:39:58,629 --> 01:39:57,520
investigation or had higher security

2449
01:40:01,750 --> 01:39:58,639
clearances

2450
01:40:04,470 --> 01:40:01,760
his position to a degree was public

2451
01:40:06,470 --> 01:40:04,480
relations although um i don't mean to

2452
01:40:08,709 --> 01:40:06,480
say that in a way that's condescending

2453
01:40:11,430 --> 01:40:08,719
he was the front man the person they put

2454
01:40:14,070 --> 01:40:11,440
forward by name who then really ran with

2455
01:40:16,229 --> 01:40:14,080
that i mean he has referred to himself

2456
01:40:19,430 --> 01:40:16,239
in promotional ways as the real-life fox

2457
01:40:23,030 --> 01:40:19,440
mulder for many years and you know more

2458
01:40:25,669 --> 01:40:23,040
power to him in a way he was but i

2459
01:40:27,669 --> 01:40:25,679
wanted people to read my book so that

2460
01:40:31,030 --> 01:40:27,679
they could make their own best decision

2461
01:40:32,870 --> 01:40:31,040
about my allegations again i feel i've

2462
01:40:36,229 --> 01:40:32,880
done some of the best investigative work

2463
01:40:39,189 --> 01:40:36,239
i've ever done i also resented having to

2464
01:40:41,590 --> 01:40:39,199
write it i felt compelled to it was not

2465
01:40:43,990 --> 01:40:41,600
something that i willingly

2466
01:40:45,910 --> 01:40:44,000
would have wanted to do and in fact if

2467
01:40:48,550 --> 01:40:45,920
anybody would have suggested before the

2468
01:40:49,350 --> 01:40:48,560
fact that i would write a book about a

2469
01:40:51,910 --> 01:40:49,360
book

2470
01:40:54,470 --> 01:40:51,920
about this subject i should also say

2471
01:40:56,390 --> 01:40:54,480
here that although i don't feel at all

2472
01:40:58,709 --> 01:40:56,400
that jim and john were involved in this

2473
01:40:59,510 --> 01:40:58,719
deception or even aware of it

2474
01:41:06,870 --> 01:40:59,520
that

2475
01:41:08,790 --> 01:41:06,880
might not be aware of as recently as

2476
01:41:10,310 --> 01:41:08,800
this past summer

2477
01:41:12,870 --> 01:41:10,320
john burroughs

2478
01:41:15,030 --> 01:41:12,880
blew a lot of our minds by saying

2479
01:41:18,390 --> 01:41:15,040
number one i don't trust nick pope

2480
01:41:21,590 --> 01:41:18,400
anymore number two i never saw

2481
01:41:23,990 --> 01:41:21,600
jim peniston touch that craft

2482
01:41:28,470 --> 01:41:24,000
i don't remember seeing the craft and in

2483
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:28,480
fact his dates his timing is wrong also

2484
01:41:33,430 --> 01:41:31,600
considering that this whole binary code

2485
01:41:36,390 --> 01:41:33,440
download into his head which has now

2486
01:41:38,149 --> 01:41:36,400
become i think um a shiny object

2487
01:41:40,790 --> 01:41:38,159
something to take our attention away

2488
01:41:43,830 --> 01:41:40,800
yeah yeah i was gonna ask you about that

2489
01:41:45,910 --> 01:41:43,840
and the allegation that time travelers

2490
01:41:49,109 --> 01:41:45,920
from the future and that is the phrase

2491
01:41:50,390 --> 01:41:49,119
that he uses he chose him of anyone else

2492
01:41:53,109 --> 01:41:50,400
in humanity

2493
01:41:55,830 --> 01:41:53,119
to give this coded message to of

2494
01:41:57,590 --> 01:41:55,840
thousands of ones and zeros i had never

2495
01:42:00,310 --> 01:41:57,600
even heard the term binary code because

2496
01:42:03,189 --> 01:42:00,320
i'm not a computer person until he first

2497
01:42:06,470 --> 01:42:03,199
used it in a public forum now nick opens

2498
01:42:09,270 --> 01:42:06,480
the chapter on the code by saying for 30

2499
01:42:11,189 --> 01:42:09,280
years jim pennison kept the secret well

2500
01:42:14,870 --> 01:42:11,199
he really didn't he talked about it as

2501
01:42:16,870 --> 01:42:14,880
early as 1994 in a hypnotic regression

2502
01:42:19,510 --> 01:42:16,880
and he even says in the book and i'm

2503
01:42:20,629 --> 01:42:19,520
paraphrasing here ever so slightly how

2504
01:42:25,109 --> 01:42:20,639
could i

2505
01:42:28,709 --> 01:42:25,119
24 hours later sitting in my room copy

2506
01:42:31,590 --> 01:42:28,719
out these several thousands of 16 pages

2507
01:42:34,070 --> 01:42:31,600
i think of ones and zeroes

2508
01:42:36,149 --> 01:42:34,080
how does he know that the message is

2509
01:42:38,149 --> 01:42:36,159
from time travelers from the future

2510
01:42:39,189 --> 01:42:38,159
because they told him

2511
01:42:41,270 --> 01:42:39,199
now

2512
01:42:43,910 --> 01:42:41,280
the coded message

2513
01:42:45,430 --> 01:42:43,920
is kind of for me um

2514
01:42:46,310 --> 01:42:45,440
sort of a

2515
01:42:49,990 --> 01:42:46,320
well

2516
01:42:52,629 --> 01:42:50,000
it is longitude and latitudes allegedly

2517
01:42:55,510 --> 01:42:52,639
for a number of very mystical or high

2518
01:42:57,430 --> 01:42:55,520
energy locations in the world including

2519
01:42:59,750 --> 01:42:57,440
locations in greece

2520
01:43:01,189 --> 01:42:59,760
china a mythical sunken island off the

2521
01:43:04,790 --> 01:43:01,199
coast of ireland

2522
01:43:07,350 --> 01:43:04,800
and sedona arizona john burroughs

2523
01:43:09,189 --> 01:43:07,360
where john burroughs lives now

2524
01:43:11,990 --> 01:43:09,199
jim maintains

2525
01:43:14,390 --> 01:43:12,000
that this is not open to discussion and

2526
01:43:17,030 --> 01:43:14,400
over the several years since he made

2527
01:43:19,990 --> 01:43:17,040
this public and i should say he did not

2528
01:43:22,070 --> 01:43:20,000
make it public for 30 years and i was

2529
01:43:23,750 --> 01:43:22,080
there when he did at a conference

2530
01:43:26,390 --> 01:43:23,760
marking the 30th anniversary in

2531
01:43:29,590 --> 01:43:26,400
woodbridge suffolk england

2532
01:43:31,990 --> 01:43:29,600
john burroughs had let us know that the

2533
01:43:32,790 --> 01:43:32,000
first time jim even mentioned this to

2534
01:43:35,030 --> 01:43:32,800
him

2535
01:43:37,910 --> 01:43:35,040
or that he had any inkling of it was

2536
01:43:40,470 --> 01:43:37,920
october 2010 almost 30 years after it

2537
01:43:42,229 --> 01:43:40,480
happened and this was the person who was

2538
01:43:44,390 --> 01:43:42,239
with him when it happened there are so

2539
01:43:46,149 --> 01:43:44,400
many things that make no sense about it

2540
01:43:48,470 --> 01:43:46,159
i make what i feel

2541
01:43:49,669 --> 01:43:48,480
is an extremely compelling and reasoned

2542
01:43:52,950 --> 01:43:49,679
argument

2543
01:43:56,229 --> 01:43:52,960
in deliberate deception that it was not

2544
01:43:57,189 --> 01:43:56,239
time travelers who put this notion

2545
01:43:58,870 --> 01:43:57,199
into

2546
01:44:01,830 --> 01:43:58,880
jim penniston's head

2547
01:44:03,590 --> 01:44:01,840
it was a highly sophisticated one of

2548
01:44:06,149 --> 01:44:03,600
probably a number of highly

2549
01:44:08,709 --> 01:44:06,159
sophisticated disinformation operations

2550
01:44:11,590 --> 01:44:08,719
that sit in obeyance waiting for

2551
01:44:14,310 --> 01:44:11,600
deployment in the event of a significant

2552
01:44:15,830 --> 01:44:14,320
military ufo incident

2553
01:44:17,750 --> 01:44:15,840
what it does

2554
01:44:19,350 --> 01:44:17,760
and let's let's backtrack for a moment

2555
01:44:21,669 --> 01:44:19,360
we live in a world right now that even

2556
01:44:24,229 --> 01:44:21,679
if you're a total skeptic or debunker if

2557
01:44:26,070 --> 01:44:24,239
you study the information for this truly

2558
01:44:28,229 --> 01:44:26,080
anomalous series of events that happened

2559
01:44:30,870 --> 01:44:28,239
in england in 1980

2560
01:44:32,709 --> 01:44:30,880
you are compelled to think well

2561
01:44:35,669 --> 01:44:32,719
if there are ufos and this would

2562
01:44:38,790 --> 01:44:35,679
certainly be a qualifying event

2563
01:44:40,550 --> 01:44:38,800
we are living in a society where

2564
01:44:43,189 --> 01:44:40,560
more and more people are open to this

2565
01:44:45,430 --> 01:44:43,199
possibility but when you inject

2566
01:44:47,830 --> 01:44:45,440
time travelers from our future and again

2567
01:44:49,430 --> 01:44:47,840
who am i to say definitively that it

2568
01:44:52,229 --> 01:44:49,440
wasn't or that time travel isn't

2569
01:44:54,590 --> 01:44:52,239
possible i have my doubts about it but

2570
01:44:57,350 --> 01:44:54,600
then it becomes something much more

2571
01:44:58,870 --> 01:44:57,360
sensationalistic much more theatrical

2572
01:45:01,030 --> 01:44:58,880
much more

2573
01:45:02,950 --> 01:45:01,040
uniquely um

2574
01:45:05,910 --> 01:45:02,960
interesting to

2575
01:45:07,830 --> 01:45:05,920
those who long for something like this

2576
01:45:09,350 --> 01:45:07,840
to be the case let me tell you what's

2577
01:45:12,390 --> 01:45:09,360
going to be the case

2578
01:45:14,310 --> 01:45:12,400
well i don't want to get into that but

2579
01:45:16,070 --> 01:45:14,320
they call me a mental case actually

2580
01:45:17,990 --> 01:45:16,080
speaking of cases we have peter robbins

2581
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:18,000
with gina and chris you're in the

2582
01:45:29,669 --> 01:45:26,629
[Music]

2583
01:45:32,310 --> 01:45:29,679
great minds think alive the network for

2584
01:45:37,189 --> 01:45:32,320
the independent minded the genesis

2585
01:45:40,550 --> 01:45:38,709
this is dan pillow do you have the irs

2586
01:45:42,390 --> 01:45:40,560
money you can't pay are tax debts

2587
01:45:44,790 --> 01:45:42,400
crippling you i've defended people from

2588
01:45:46,870 --> 01:45:44,800
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

2589
01:45:48,229 --> 01:45:46,880
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

2590
01:45:49,990 --> 01:45:48,239
the book on irs settlement and i'm

2591
01:45:53,669 --> 01:45:50,000
telling you there's no such thing as a

2592
01:45:55,910 --> 01:45:53,679
hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

2593
01:45:57,430 --> 01:45:55,920
get free of irs debt with the irs's new

2594
01:46:00,229 --> 01:45:57,440
programs there's never been a better

2595
01:46:04,070 --> 01:46:00,239
time to solve your problem call 834 no

2596
01:46:06,149 --> 01:46:04,080
tax that's 800 34 no tax or my website

2597
01:46:07,990 --> 01:46:06,159
danpilla.com

2598
01:46:09,510 --> 01:46:08,000
hi this is ted anderson have you ever

2599
01:46:11,109 --> 01:46:09,520
wondered why banks stock brokers

2600
01:46:13,109 --> 01:46:11,119
investment advisors won't talk about

2601
01:46:15,430 --> 01:46:13,119
gold iras they've been available since

2602
01:46:17,189 --> 01:46:15,440
1986 yet the financial industry won't

2603
01:46:19,189 --> 01:46:17,199
recognize the value of gold for your

2604
01:46:21,430 --> 01:46:19,199
retirement gold is outperformed paper

2605
01:46:22,870 --> 01:46:21,440
investments yet no word about iras if

2606
01:46:26,149 --> 01:46:22,880
you would like to have gold for your

2607
01:46:27,669 --> 01:46:26,159
retirement call 800-686-2236

2608
01:46:29,270 --> 01:46:27,679
don't get left behind by rising

2609
01:46:31,830 --> 01:46:29,280
inflation and low returns call

2610
01:46:33,109 --> 01:46:31,840
800-686-2237

2611
01:46:38,229 --> 01:46:33,119
secure your future and call

2612
01:46:41,750 --> 01:46:40,229
on facebook on the news and in

2613
01:46:44,070 --> 01:46:41,760
conversations with friends we're

2614
01:46:45,910 --> 01:46:44,080
bombarded every day with advice on how

2615
01:46:48,629 --> 01:46:45,920
to be healthier from gluten-free and

2616
01:46:50,550 --> 01:46:48,639
non-gmo diets to how much exercise and

2617
01:46:52,390 --> 01:46:50,560
sleep the body needs but how much have

2618
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:52,400
you heard about alkalizing the body

2619
01:46:56,550 --> 01:46:54,639
alkavision plasma ph drops are a

2620
01:46:58,950 --> 01:46:56,560
holistic and natural way to get your

2621
01:47:00,790 --> 01:46:58,960
body's ph levels back in balance just a

2622
01:47:02,950 --> 01:47:00,800
few drops in water will help your body

2623
01:47:04,870 --> 01:47:02,960
rid itself of harmful waste and even the

2624
01:47:07,189 --> 01:47:04,880
healthiest of diets can be complemented

2625
01:47:09,270 --> 01:47:07,199
with your daily use of alkavision plasma

2626
01:47:11,750 --> 01:47:09,280
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2627
01:47:14,070 --> 01:47:11,760
vibrance vigor and energy now buy two

2628
01:47:16,270 --> 01:47:14,080
bottles of alkavision plasma ph drops

2629
01:47:21,270 --> 01:47:16,280
and get 10 off your order visit

2630
01:47:23,430 --> 01:47:21,280
alcovision.com or call 800 518 7615

2631
01:47:25,030 --> 01:47:23,440
plasma ph drops are packed with a

2632
01:47:27,270 --> 01:47:25,040
powerful combination of the most

2633
01:47:29,990 --> 01:47:27,280
alkaline minerals and compounds open the

2634
01:47:32,470 --> 01:47:30,000
door to greater health vitality and zest

2635
01:47:34,830 --> 01:47:32,480
for life alkalize your body supercharge

2636
01:47:42,060 --> 01:47:34,840
your health call

2637
01:47:47,910 --> 01:47:44,629
[Applause]

2638
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:47,920
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2639
01:47:51,590 --> 01:47:49,930
standard of paranormal radio

2640
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:51,600
[Music]

2641
01:47:56,160 --> 01:47:52,800
and now

2642
01:47:59,750 --> 01:47:56,170
here's gene steinberg

2643
01:48:04,790 --> 01:48:01,750
all right we're continuing with our

2644
01:48:06,870 --> 01:48:04,800
discussion of that free book peter

2645
01:48:08,629 --> 01:48:06,880
robbins wrote for phenomena magazine

2646
01:48:11,030 --> 01:48:08,639
deliberate deception a case of

2647
01:48:14,229 --> 01:48:11,040
disinformation in the ufo research

2648
01:48:16,709 --> 01:48:14,239
community but let me kind of cut to the

2649
01:48:18,629 --> 01:48:16,719
chase here too peter by putting in all

2650
01:48:19,910 --> 01:48:18,639
these red herrings misleading

2651
01:48:22,790 --> 01:48:19,920
information

2652
01:48:24,629 --> 01:48:22,800
all this what is the end result is nick

2653
01:48:25,669 --> 01:48:24,639
pope casting

2654
01:48:27,990 --> 01:48:25,679
doubt

2655
01:48:30,470 --> 01:48:28,000
upon the event or just confusing us

2656
01:48:31,990 --> 01:48:30,480
about it where is his endgame couldn't

2657
01:48:32,950 --> 01:48:32,000
he just say i don't believe it and

2658
01:48:35,189 --> 01:48:32,960
that's it

2659
01:48:36,790 --> 01:48:35,199
he could but i think you got it i think

2660
01:48:40,070 --> 01:48:36,800
he is um

2661
01:48:42,870 --> 01:48:40,080
sparing the pot he is

2662
01:48:46,390 --> 01:48:42,880
adding layers of possible confusion to

2663
01:48:49,350 --> 01:48:46,400
the story in his chapter about

2664
01:48:51,990 --> 01:48:49,360
the binary code my sense was seeing him

2665
01:48:54,629 --> 01:48:52,000
with a very straight face looking at

2666
01:48:57,430 --> 01:48:54,639
every single possibility is it a code

2667
01:48:59,350 --> 01:48:57,440
within a code he asks every question

2668
01:49:00,870 --> 01:48:59,360
except for me the most obvious one he

2669
01:49:02,470 --> 01:49:00,880
never once

2670
01:49:04,870 --> 01:49:02,480
even suggests

2671
01:49:06,390 --> 01:49:04,880
or insinuates that there's even a

2672
01:49:08,870 --> 01:49:06,400
possibility

2673
01:49:12,470 --> 01:49:08,880
that this is a deception and nick is a

2674
01:49:14,629 --> 01:49:12,480
smart guy and he of all people working

2675
01:49:16,790 --> 01:49:14,639
in the field that he worked in for his

2676
01:49:17,910 --> 01:49:16,800
entire professional life

2677
01:49:20,310 --> 01:49:17,920
that is

2678
01:49:23,669 --> 01:49:20,320
a conscious omission that's not like oh

2679
01:49:26,629 --> 01:49:23,679
gee i forgot to include that possibility

2680
01:49:28,550 --> 01:49:26,639
he is very sanctimonious and very kind

2681
01:49:30,149 --> 01:49:28,560
of chin rubbing and serious all

2682
01:49:32,310 --> 01:49:30,159
throughout this chapter

2683
01:49:33,750 --> 01:49:32,320
never once acknowledging even the

2684
01:49:37,750 --> 01:49:33,760
possibility

2685
01:49:38,629 --> 01:49:37,760
that jim has been deceived and he knows

2686
01:49:43,430 --> 01:49:38,639
better

2687
01:49:47,350 --> 01:49:43,440
for me his job so to say is to draw

2688
01:49:50,629 --> 01:49:47,360
attention to a very sensational and very

2689
01:49:53,590 --> 01:49:50,639
remote possibility and put literally all

2690
01:49:55,910 --> 01:49:53,600
of the focus on it time travelers from

2691
01:49:58,550 --> 01:49:55,920
our future were responsible for this

2692
01:50:01,350 --> 01:49:58,560
series of events in the uk

2693
01:50:03,750 --> 01:50:01,360
let's look hard at that and let's get

2694
01:50:06,629 --> 01:50:03,760
that translated and you know maybe it

2695
01:50:09,189 --> 01:50:06,639
will be a message to save humanity for

2696
01:50:12,229 --> 01:50:09,199
me it is all patently

2697
01:50:15,270 --> 01:50:12,239
obvious that this is part of the

2698
01:50:18,470 --> 01:50:15,280
deception take down as much as possible

2699
01:50:20,629 --> 01:50:18,480
discredit as much as possible a uniquely

2700
01:50:22,950 --> 01:50:20,639
valuable book with

2701
01:50:26,149 --> 01:50:22,960
something like oh i get we have several

2702
01:50:28,629 --> 01:50:26,159
hundred sources that we drew from in our

2703
01:50:31,350 --> 01:50:28,639
nine years of research nick doesn't have

2704
01:50:33,030 --> 01:50:31,360
a single footnote or an annotation he

2705
01:50:35,350 --> 01:50:33,040
doesn't have a bibliography there's no

2706
01:50:38,390 --> 01:50:35,360
reading list you simply have to take his

2707
01:50:41,350 --> 01:50:38,400
word for everything the index is

2708
01:50:43,430 --> 01:50:41,360
woefully missing certain key

2709
01:50:45,990 --> 01:50:43,440
subjects that are in the book but are

2710
01:50:49,590 --> 01:50:46,000
not in the index it is not a good piece

2711
01:50:52,629 --> 01:50:49,600
of research it is more a pop cultural

2712
01:50:55,510 --> 01:50:52,639
kind of treatment of the subject again

2713
01:50:58,229 --> 01:50:55,520
we took almost a decade they took 14

2714
01:50:59,750 --> 01:50:58,239
months and there is

2715
01:51:02,550 --> 01:50:59,760
nothing new

2716
01:51:05,830 --> 01:51:02,560
in the book the appendices shows the

2717
01:51:08,149 --> 01:51:05,840
scans of the 16 pages of ones and zeros

2718
01:51:09,430 --> 01:51:08,159
it has i think three

2719
01:51:11,990 --> 01:51:09,440
documents

2720
01:51:14,709 --> 01:51:12,000
none of which are electrifying one or

2721
01:51:17,189 --> 01:51:14,719
two other things it has two drawings no

2722
01:51:18,790 --> 01:51:17,199
photographs it's not much of a book i'm

2723
01:51:20,550 --> 01:51:18,800
sorry to say and

2724
01:51:22,870 --> 01:51:20,560
a lot of us were very disappointed

2725
01:51:24,709 --> 01:51:22,880
because we hoped it would show more we

2726
01:51:26,629 --> 01:51:24,719
hoped it would give more

2727
01:51:29,669 --> 01:51:26,639
the events of the first night are very

2728
01:51:32,310 --> 01:51:29,679
important but again john burroughs who

2729
01:51:34,709 --> 01:51:32,320
was right there and i should also say

2730
01:51:37,830 --> 01:51:34,719
for any of your listeners who know about

2731
01:51:39,589 --> 01:51:37,840
the long and contentious relationship

2732
01:51:42,390 --> 01:51:39,599
between tennyson and burroughs and

2733
01:51:44,870 --> 01:51:42,400
warren it no longer exists between john

2734
01:51:47,830 --> 01:51:44,880
burroughs and larry warren they are now

2735
01:51:50,550 --> 01:51:47,840
friends they spoke together on the stage

2736
01:51:52,629 --> 01:51:50,560
of a conference just this past september

2737
01:51:54,470 --> 01:51:52,639
in woodbridge england they are now

2738
01:51:57,910 --> 01:51:54,480
sharing information

2739
01:52:00,070 --> 01:51:57,920
john is completely out of any interest

2740
01:52:02,310 --> 01:52:00,080
of working with jim pennison or nick

2741
01:52:04,709 --> 01:52:02,320
pope again and he had some very

2742
01:52:07,270 --> 01:52:04,719
compelling reasons for doing so

2743
01:52:09,589 --> 01:52:07,280
you know jim's story really is falling

2744
01:52:11,750 --> 01:52:09,599
apart as far as i'm concerned and

2745
01:52:14,310 --> 01:52:11,760
especially if it's reflected

2746
01:52:15,910 --> 01:52:14,320
in the statement's key statements and

2747
01:52:18,149 --> 01:52:15,920
anybody that wants can check it out for

2748
01:52:20,550 --> 01:52:18,159
themselves on john burroughs facebook

2749
01:52:22,870 --> 01:52:20,560
page or contact him directly to find out

2750
01:52:24,790 --> 01:52:22,880
if what i'm saying is accurate you know

2751
01:52:27,589 --> 01:52:24,800
listening to you i'm getting the

2752
01:52:30,470 --> 01:52:27,599
impression here that this entire house

2753
01:52:32,390 --> 01:52:30,480
of cards of rendlesham falls apart as a

2754
01:52:34,470 --> 01:52:32,400
result of nick's book so let me ask you

2755
01:52:36,390 --> 01:52:34,480
since you came out with your

2756
01:52:38,790 --> 01:52:36,400
shall we say rebuttal to it because i

2757
01:52:40,790 --> 01:52:38,800
guess that in part is what it is

2758
01:52:43,350 --> 01:52:40,800
what has his response been

2759
01:52:46,470 --> 01:52:43,360
there hasn't been a response in fact as

2760
01:52:49,669 --> 01:52:46,480
i think i mentioned to you when we first

2761
01:52:52,950 --> 01:52:49,679
spoke about my returning tour the show

2762
01:52:55,270 --> 01:52:52,960
i have asked literally every radio host

2763
01:52:58,870 --> 01:52:55,280
or producer whose show i've been asked

2764
01:53:02,470 --> 01:52:58,880
to appear on about this book to invite

2765
01:53:04,470 --> 01:53:02,480
nick or jim or john not so much john

2766
01:53:05,830 --> 01:53:04,480
anymore now because we're pretty much in

2767
01:53:08,390 --> 01:53:05,840
agreement

2768
01:53:11,270 --> 01:53:08,400
or charles hall nick has turned down

2769
01:53:13,510 --> 01:53:11,280
every single invitation to do so and

2770
01:53:14,629 --> 01:53:13,520
we'll continue to and i don't blame him

2771
01:53:17,910 --> 01:53:14,639
because

2772
01:53:20,390 --> 01:53:17,920
even in a moderated civilized session

2773
01:53:23,990 --> 01:53:20,400
and it would certainly be that i have no

2774
01:53:26,390 --> 01:53:24,000
desire to uh have a fight with him in a

2775
01:53:28,870 --> 01:53:26,400
public forum as much as to air our

2776
01:53:31,430 --> 01:53:28,880
differences he is never going to face me

2777
01:53:34,629 --> 01:53:31,440
in a public forum because

2778
01:53:35,830 --> 01:53:34,639
he would lose he would lose very badly i

2779
01:53:38,629 --> 01:53:35,840
don't think

2780
01:53:41,750 --> 01:53:38,639
that the case is falling apart at all in

2781
01:53:44,629 --> 01:53:41,760
fact i think it's being strengthened

2782
01:53:46,229 --> 01:53:44,639
because of what is coming out

2783
01:53:50,149 --> 01:53:46,239
as a result

2784
01:53:52,709 --> 01:53:50,159
of reactions to this deception i will

2785
01:53:55,030 --> 01:53:52,719
also add that although the written part

2786
01:53:59,270 --> 01:53:55,040
of deliberate deception even with colin

2787
01:54:02,229 --> 01:53:59,280
andrews very powerful and epilogue

2788
01:54:04,310 --> 01:54:02,239
is under 100 pages but the book is 450

2789
01:54:08,310 --> 01:54:04,320
pages and the reason for that

2790
01:54:10,709 --> 01:54:08,320
is because over the past 26 years i have

2791
01:54:12,790 --> 01:54:10,719
collected along with my co-author

2792
01:54:15,750 --> 01:54:12,800
arguably certainly one of the largest

2793
01:54:16,950 --> 01:54:15,760
databases on the subject and

2794
01:54:18,790 --> 01:54:16,960
before

2795
01:54:21,589 --> 01:54:18,800
steve mira had

2796
01:54:24,470 --> 01:54:21,599
published the book for us in the uk

2797
01:54:25,510 --> 01:54:24,480
i had a talk with larry warren about

2798
01:54:28,070 --> 01:54:25,520
adding

2799
01:54:30,870 --> 01:54:28,080
several hundred pages of the documents

2800
01:54:34,550 --> 01:54:30,880
that we collected documents letters uh

2801
01:54:37,270 --> 01:54:34,560
military memoranda maps drawings every

2802
01:54:40,390 --> 01:54:37,280
kind of communication possible um i

2803
01:54:43,189 --> 01:54:40,400
think 50 pages of photos and again we

2804
01:54:45,750 --> 01:54:43,199
are making nothing on this all i'm doing

2805
01:54:48,470 --> 01:54:45,760
is putting into the record and making

2806
01:54:51,510 --> 01:54:48,480
available to anyone as well as my

2807
01:54:54,070 --> 01:54:51,520
commentary the largest database of

2808
01:54:55,990 --> 01:54:54,080
rendlesham related information ever

2809
01:54:57,990 --> 01:54:56,000
released and probably ever will be

2810
01:54:59,990 --> 01:54:58,000
released anywhere and that probably

2811
01:55:01,910 --> 01:55:00,000
includes the british government what i

2812
01:55:04,550 --> 01:55:01,920
invite people to do

2813
01:55:06,629 --> 01:55:04,560
is read what i have to say read

2814
01:55:10,070 --> 01:55:06,639
encounter in randalsham forest if you

2815
01:55:13,109 --> 01:55:10,080
want to see if i'm exaggerating or in

2816
01:55:15,430 --> 01:55:13,119
any way inaccurate or in any way um

2817
01:55:16,470 --> 01:55:15,440
being disrespectful to them or their

2818
01:55:19,830 --> 01:55:16,480
research

2819
01:55:22,550 --> 01:55:19,840
and then spend the weeks and it will

2820
01:55:24,550 --> 01:55:22,560
take weeks to go through all of the

2821
01:55:27,270 --> 01:55:24,560
information that we have collected i

2822
01:55:30,390 --> 01:55:27,280
think even people who are knowledgeable

2823
01:55:32,310 --> 01:55:30,400
in ufology and very aware of this case

2824
01:55:34,950 --> 01:55:32,320
will be quite shocked at some of the

2825
01:55:37,510 --> 01:55:34,960
information that we have put out there i

2826
01:55:38,390 --> 01:55:37,520
i see it as the equivalent of a legal

2827
01:55:41,270 --> 01:55:38,400
case

2828
01:55:42,470 --> 01:55:41,280
if after reading it after reviewing it

2829
01:55:45,109 --> 01:55:42,480
you feel

2830
01:55:47,990 --> 01:55:45,119
that i have established the points that

2831
01:55:50,950 --> 01:55:48,000
i set out to beyond any reasonable doubt

2832
01:55:54,470 --> 01:55:50,960
in legal terms then please share it with

2833
01:55:56,629 --> 01:55:54,480
others and if you are at a conference or

2834
01:55:59,270 --> 01:55:56,639
in a call-in situation

2835
01:56:02,390 --> 01:55:59,280
at an event or on a program that nick

2836
01:56:05,030 --> 01:56:02,400
pope is taking part in for your own

2837
01:56:07,990 --> 01:56:05,040
curiosity ask him questions that are

2838
01:56:10,550 --> 01:56:08,000
easily accessible in that book

2839
01:56:13,910 --> 01:56:10,560
he should be called to account on this

2840
01:56:16,390 --> 01:56:13,920
you don't lie about other people's work

2841
01:56:18,629 --> 01:56:16,400
in this and then make believe that

2842
01:56:20,629 --> 01:56:18,639
you know you're telling the truth

2843
01:56:23,350 --> 01:56:20,639
it's not

2844
01:56:28,629 --> 01:56:23,360
it it's completely unethical is what it

2845
01:56:32,709 --> 01:56:28,639
is and again if i sound um in any way

2846
01:56:37,270 --> 01:56:34,790
unobjective

2847
01:56:38,470 --> 01:56:37,280
then all i can say is read it for

2848
01:56:41,669 --> 01:56:38,480
yourself

2849
01:56:45,350 --> 01:56:41,679
again i am profiting in no way from this

2850
01:56:47,669 --> 01:56:45,360
i gave away 700 hours of work this has

2851
01:56:50,550 --> 01:56:47,679
been an awful financial year for me and

2852
01:56:52,870 --> 01:56:50,560
in part because i dedicated almost half

2853
01:56:56,229 --> 01:56:52,880
of it to writing the best manuscript

2854
01:56:59,109 --> 01:56:56,239
that i could with respect to people who

2855
01:57:00,950 --> 01:56:59,119
i really do respect jim and john went

2856
01:57:02,709 --> 01:57:00,960
through something awful

2857
01:57:04,790 --> 01:57:02,719
and i'm not talking about the event but

2858
01:57:07,270 --> 01:57:04,800
what was they were put through after the

2859
01:57:08,790 --> 01:57:07,280
fact like larry warren but nobody more

2860
01:57:10,070 --> 01:57:08,800
than jim pennison

2861
01:57:12,310 --> 01:57:10,080
let's break it here and we'll go into

2862
01:57:14,790 --> 01:57:12,320
more of that yeah we have peter robbins

2863
01:57:15,589 --> 01:57:14,800
here we're talking about

2864
01:57:19,109 --> 01:57:15,599
this

2865
01:57:20,709 --> 01:57:19,119
new book an e-book free in seven parts

2866
01:57:23,350 --> 01:57:20,719
with a very long

2867
01:57:25,109 --> 01:57:23,360
appendix with lots of extra material

2868
01:57:27,669 --> 01:57:25,119
deliberate deception a case of

2869
01:57:30,390 --> 01:57:27,679
disinformation in the ufo research

2870
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community with gene and chris you're in

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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

2972
02:01:47,189 --> 02:01:43,679
comment or question about the paracast

2973
02:01:48,470 --> 02:01:47,199
send it to news at theparecast.com

2974
02:01:50,470 --> 02:01:48,480
that's news at the paracast

2975
02:01:52,310 --> 02:01:50,480
theparacast.com

2976
02:01:54,790 --> 02:01:52,320
and don't forget to visit our famous

2977
02:01:58,790 --> 02:01:54,800
paracast community forums at

2978
02:02:02,310 --> 02:02:01,109
peter robbins joins us and we're going

2979
02:02:05,189 --> 02:02:02,320
to try to figure out deliberate

2980
02:02:07,589 --> 02:02:05,199
deception about the disinformation he

2981
02:02:10,070 --> 02:02:07,599
charges on the part of nick pope have

2982
02:02:12,870 --> 02:02:10,080
you talked or had any communication with

2983
02:02:14,950 --> 02:02:12,880
nick pope since your book came out you

2984
02:02:16,070 --> 02:02:14,960
know i haven't i think it's rather

2985
02:02:19,350 --> 02:02:16,080
poignant

2986
02:02:21,830 --> 02:02:19,360
that i guess a week or two before

2987
02:02:23,910 --> 02:02:21,840
i began to read the book nick and i

2988
02:02:26,149 --> 02:02:23,920
exchanged emails as we have for many

2989
02:02:28,149 --> 02:02:26,159
years and one of the things i always

2990
02:02:30,470 --> 02:02:28,159
liked about nick is he's got a great

2991
02:02:33,109 --> 02:02:30,480
sense of humor and we both

2992
02:02:35,109 --> 02:02:33,119
have enjoyed um as the british say

2993
02:02:36,950 --> 02:02:35,119
taking the mickey out of each other

2994
02:02:40,310 --> 02:02:36,960
uh for many years

2995
02:02:42,470 --> 02:02:40,320
and he wrote me an email on a day that

2996
02:02:45,589 --> 02:02:42,480
he knew i was still in

2997
02:02:47,589 --> 02:02:45,599
winter up here in ithaca new york um

2998
02:02:49,430 --> 02:02:47,599
about the 80 degree weather and how

2999
02:02:51,669 --> 02:02:49,440
lovely it was in his garden

3000
02:02:54,550 --> 02:02:51,679
and it was you know this is part of the

3001
02:02:57,030 --> 02:02:54,560
fun of that kind of sense of humor

3002
02:02:59,030 --> 02:02:57,040
but as i started to read the book and i

3003
02:03:01,669 --> 02:02:59,040
thought back on even just that brief

3004
02:03:03,910 --> 02:03:01,679
exchange that we had had he had already

3005
02:03:05,990 --> 02:03:03,920
written all of these untruths and i

3006
02:03:08,070 --> 02:03:06,000
thought good lord i could call him right

3007
02:03:09,830 --> 02:03:08,080
now i could call him after the show

3008
02:03:12,310 --> 02:03:09,840
and what am i going to say why did you

3009
02:03:13,910 --> 02:03:12,320
do it i don't think he'll answer me and

3010
02:03:16,550 --> 02:03:13,920
i'm going to call them and call them

3011
02:03:18,870 --> 02:03:16,560
names of course not again this is a

3012
02:03:20,709 --> 02:03:18,880
unique situation i don't take it

3013
02:03:23,750 --> 02:03:20,719
personally i don't know how that sounds

3014
02:03:26,229 --> 02:03:23,760
to you but this isn't personal nick was

3015
02:03:29,350 --> 02:03:26,239
doing what he felt he had to do

3016
02:03:30,950 --> 02:03:29,360
either of his own volition or because he

3017
02:03:34,470 --> 02:03:30,960
was asked to

3018
02:03:37,109 --> 02:03:34,480
or because he was ordered to if he was

3019
02:03:37,910 --> 02:03:37,119
somebody who was not

3020
02:03:40,709 --> 02:03:37,920
so

3021
02:03:43,030 --> 02:03:40,719
dedicated to the safety and security of

3022
02:03:45,589 --> 02:03:43,040
his country if he had not been such a

3023
02:03:48,070 --> 02:03:45,599
loyal employee of the ministry of

3024
02:03:49,830 --> 02:03:48,080
defense and again in his terminology his

3025
02:03:52,149 --> 02:03:49,840
government masters

3026
02:03:55,109 --> 02:03:52,159
yeah maybe i would take it personally

3027
02:03:57,589 --> 02:03:55,119
i guess my only regret

3028
02:03:59,830 --> 02:03:57,599
in terms of besides the amount of time i

3029
02:04:02,629 --> 02:03:59,840
had to take to write something i found

3030
02:04:05,669 --> 02:04:02,639
very distasteful but just very important

3031
02:04:07,669 --> 02:04:05,679
is that i really valued our friendship

3032
02:04:10,629 --> 02:04:07,679
and i'd like to think that he did as

3033
02:04:12,550 --> 02:04:10,639
well and that's gone now i'm very lucky

3034
02:04:15,270 --> 02:04:12,560
guy in that i have a lot of real

3035
02:04:17,589 --> 02:04:15,280
friendships but i work at it god knows

3036
02:04:20,149 --> 02:04:17,599
you don't make money in this work but i

3037
02:04:22,149 --> 02:04:20,159
am very wealthy in terms of friends

3038
02:04:24,470 --> 02:04:22,159
all over this country and to a degree

3039
02:04:27,270 --> 02:04:24,480
all over the world you guys know you

3040
02:04:29,510 --> 02:04:27,280
meet some remarkable people in this work

3041
02:04:31,030 --> 02:04:29,520
and although you know chris and i hardly

3042
02:04:33,109 --> 02:04:31,040
got to spend any time together in

3043
02:04:35,270 --> 02:04:33,119
arizona it was a great connection

3044
02:04:37,669 --> 02:04:35,280
and you know um

3045
02:04:39,910 --> 02:04:37,679
just the beginning of yet one more

3046
02:04:41,430 --> 02:04:39,920
wonderful colleagueship in the work and

3047
02:04:44,310 --> 02:04:41,440
gene you and i have known each other at

3048
02:04:47,189 --> 02:04:44,320
a distance for years but i'm sorry for

3049
02:04:49,589 --> 02:04:47,199
nick more and more people will read this

3050
02:04:52,709 --> 02:04:49,599
work and more and more people will ask

3051
02:04:54,390 --> 02:04:52,719
him about it or not trust him you know i

3052
02:04:57,430 --> 02:04:54,400
want to ask you that too

3053
02:05:00,310 --> 02:04:57,440
doing what you say he's done here

3054
02:05:02,950 --> 02:05:00,320
how must he feel having done this

3055
02:05:06,229 --> 02:05:02,960
feeling that in a sense he is betraying

3056
02:05:08,390 --> 02:05:06,239
close friends he is confusing people he

3057
02:05:09,350 --> 02:05:08,400
may be alienating some people as a

3058
02:05:11,830 --> 02:05:09,360
result

3059
02:05:13,589 --> 02:05:11,840
what must his reaction be or as you say

3060
02:05:14,629 --> 02:05:13,599
he's the good soldier he does what he

3061
02:05:17,350 --> 02:05:14,639
wants

3062
02:05:19,350 --> 02:05:17,360
what he must do for queen and country

3063
02:05:22,229 --> 02:05:19,360
but then the other question here

3064
02:05:24,229 --> 02:05:22,239
is would he feel that when

3065
02:05:26,470 --> 02:05:24,239
being called a disinformation agent he

3066
02:05:28,149 --> 02:05:26,480
has to strike back at some point legally

3067
02:05:30,870 --> 02:05:28,159
get back to you and say you can't do

3068
02:05:34,149 --> 02:05:30,880
this here's my lawyer or does he stay

3069
02:05:36,229 --> 02:05:34,159
silent well as far as trying to take

3070
02:05:38,229 --> 02:05:36,239
legal action against me i invite him to

3071
02:05:40,149 --> 02:05:38,239
give it his best shot there's no way

3072
02:05:41,510 --> 02:05:40,159
it's going to happen number one it would

3073
02:05:42,790 --> 02:05:41,520
only cause

3074
02:05:43,589 --> 02:05:42,800
more people

3075
02:05:48,390 --> 02:05:43,599
to

3076
02:05:50,709 --> 02:05:48,400
of his protest which would fall apart

3077
02:05:53,430 --> 02:05:50,719
very quickly on a careful reading of

3078
02:05:55,430 --> 02:05:53,440
what i have written again you guys know

3079
02:05:58,229 --> 02:05:55,440
you've read it or parts of it it is

3080
02:06:01,589 --> 02:05:58,239
incredibly specific and i use only their

3081
02:06:02,470 --> 02:06:01,599
own words and statements and actions

3082
02:06:04,550 --> 02:06:02,480
to

3083
02:06:06,070 --> 02:06:04,560
call attention negative and positive and

3084
02:06:08,310 --> 02:06:06,080
there are some positive comments

3085
02:06:09,669 --> 02:06:08,320
throughout the book no question now i

3086
02:06:12,470 --> 02:06:09,679
would never

3087
02:06:14,709 --> 02:06:12,480
dream of saying i know what nick is

3088
02:06:17,270 --> 02:06:14,719
feeling i i don't know but i'll tell you

3089
02:06:19,669 --> 02:06:17,280
what i would deduce i think he is a

3090
02:06:21,589 --> 02:06:19,679
sensitive guy and i think he is a decent

3091
02:06:23,750 --> 02:06:21,599
guy and i think

3092
02:06:26,550 --> 02:06:23,760
that he is probably hurting about this

3093
02:06:29,030 --> 02:06:26,560
and in a perfect world i think he

3094
02:06:32,790 --> 02:06:29,040
probably would much rather have not done

3095
02:06:35,109 --> 02:06:32,800
what he did that is purely my own

3096
02:06:38,229 --> 02:06:35,119
subjective feeling i can't prove it i

3097
02:06:40,470 --> 02:06:38,239
can't back it up if i'm wrong so be it i

3098
02:06:42,470 --> 02:06:40,480
don't think he's a bad person or an evil

3099
02:06:45,430 --> 02:06:42,480
person i think he's doing

3100
02:06:48,149 --> 02:06:45,440
what he feels he has to do or what he

3101
02:06:49,990 --> 02:06:48,159
was asked to do or what he was ordered

3102
02:06:51,109 --> 02:06:50,000
to do chris you have some questions from

3103
02:06:53,750 --> 02:06:51,119
listeners

3104
02:06:55,750 --> 02:06:53,760
not specifically on rental shim we do

3105
02:06:57,109 --> 02:06:55,760
have one question here

3106
02:06:59,430 --> 02:06:57,119
from a new sign up at

3107
02:07:01,430 --> 02:06:59,440
form.theparacast.com

3108
02:07:02,550 --> 02:07:01,440
he calls himself everything we know is

3109
02:07:04,629 --> 02:07:02,560
wrong

3110
02:07:06,149 --> 02:07:04,639
interesting

3111
02:07:08,790 --> 02:07:06,159
avatar name

3112
02:07:10,229 --> 02:07:08,800
but i agree with him

3113
02:07:11,990 --> 02:07:10,239
not everything

3114
02:07:14,629 --> 02:07:12,000
he's wondering about getting larry to

3115
02:07:17,270 --> 02:07:14,639
appear with uh with peter on

3116
02:07:19,669 --> 02:07:17,280
a show here in the future and i'm just

3117
02:07:22,390 --> 02:07:19,679
wondering does larry uh still do uh

3118
02:07:25,030 --> 02:07:22,400
radio shows or talk about the case he

3119
02:07:28,229 --> 02:07:25,040
absolutely does also be aware though

3120
02:07:30,470 --> 02:07:28,239
that since the year 2000 larry has been

3121
02:07:34,629 --> 02:07:30,480
a resident of liverpool england he is a

3122
02:07:37,189 --> 02:07:34,639
true expatriate so um there are times

3123
02:07:39,750 --> 02:07:37,199
when um especially for live broadcasts

3124
02:07:41,109 --> 02:07:39,760
where it's just prohibitive for one or

3125
02:07:42,790 --> 02:07:41,119
the other of us

3126
02:07:45,030 --> 02:07:42,800
to be involved because of a work

3127
02:07:46,629 --> 02:07:45,040
commitment or the time or what have you

3128
02:07:48,790 --> 02:07:46,639
but yeah that's certainly possible

3129
02:07:51,430 --> 02:07:48,800
absolutely let me say this we have the

3130
02:07:52,550 --> 02:07:51,440
capability of calling him wherever he is

3131
02:07:54,069 --> 02:07:52,560
in the world

3132
02:07:55,830 --> 02:07:54,079
and we're happy to do it and we're happy

3133
02:07:58,149 --> 02:07:55,840
to spend a few pennies a minute which is

3134
02:08:00,069 --> 02:07:58,159
what skype charges to make an outgoing

3135
02:08:02,629 --> 02:08:00,079
call if he hasn't got married on the

3136
02:08:04,310 --> 02:08:02,639
show we've had uh jim and and i think

3137
02:08:06,390 --> 02:08:04,320
john we haven't had jim on the phone

3138
02:08:09,030 --> 02:08:06,400
we've had john burroughs of course we

3139
02:08:11,189 --> 02:08:09,040
had john with you on one of the episodes

3140
02:08:13,910 --> 02:08:11,199
of the practice oh yes absolutely sure

3141
02:08:16,709 --> 02:08:13,920
and in fact um i mean i'd be happy i'm

3142
02:08:19,270 --> 02:08:16,719
always glad to work with larry he's not

3143
02:08:20,870 --> 02:08:19,280
just my co-author he's one of my dearest

3144
02:08:23,189 --> 02:08:20,880
friends he's somebody i hold in

3145
02:08:25,830 --> 02:08:23,199
tremendous esteem he's one of the

3146
02:08:28,709 --> 02:08:25,840
greatest guys i think i've ever met he

3147
02:08:31,030 --> 02:08:28,719
is a tough no-nonsense absolutely

3148
02:08:33,750 --> 02:08:31,040
world-class figure and and every man at

3149
02:08:35,189 --> 02:08:33,760
the same time as interesting a show and

3150
02:08:36,470 --> 02:08:35,199
in some ways even more interesting

3151
02:08:38,790 --> 02:08:36,480
because we've been paired up for a

3152
02:08:42,069 --> 02:08:38,800
quarter of a century would be a show

3153
02:08:45,430 --> 02:08:42,079
with larry and john burroughs who

3154
02:08:48,069 --> 02:08:45,440
for decades john attacked larry's

3155
02:08:50,470 --> 02:08:48,079
credibility and now is standing with him

3156
02:08:52,310 --> 02:08:50,480
and vice versa well you just booked the

3157
02:08:54,390 --> 02:08:52,320
show peter

3158
02:08:56,709 --> 02:08:54,400
so what we can do here is i'm happy to

3159
02:08:58,709 --> 02:08:56,719
be back with any of these players again

3160
02:09:01,030 --> 02:08:58,719
yeah we've had charles halt on the show

3161
02:09:03,270 --> 02:09:01,040
last year actually charles hall i think

3162
02:09:05,750 --> 02:09:03,280
also would never appear on a show with

3163
02:09:08,390 --> 02:09:05,760
me because i well you if you read my

3164
02:09:11,030 --> 02:09:08,400
chapter on him he has been extremely

3165
02:09:13,189 --> 02:09:11,040
deceptive and plays people against each

3166
02:09:15,669 --> 02:09:13,199
other and he is the only person who has

3167
02:09:19,189 --> 02:09:15,679
ever told as far as i'm concerned

3168
02:09:21,030 --> 02:09:19,199
outright fabrications about me in books

3169
02:09:22,870 --> 02:09:21,040
in print and

3170
02:09:25,270 --> 02:09:22,880
i don't think he'd go up against me in a

3171
02:09:26,790 --> 02:09:25,280
live form at this point well he was one

3172
02:09:28,629 --> 02:09:26,800
of the toughest guests we've ever had

3173
02:09:31,669 --> 02:09:28,639
because i've never had so many

3174
02:09:33,750 --> 02:09:31,679
single or two-word answers

3175
02:09:35,830 --> 02:09:33,760
i agree i wouldn't want to play uh my

3176
02:09:37,830 --> 02:09:35,840
poker with the guy i'll tell you what he

3177
02:09:40,550 --> 02:09:37,840
has got one of the most implacable faces

3178
02:09:42,870 --> 02:09:40,560
i've ever seen and again

3179
02:09:45,990 --> 02:09:42,880
charles hall is an honorably retired

3180
02:09:48,069 --> 02:09:46,000
united states air force officer who

3181
02:09:51,750 --> 02:09:48,079
served in vietnam who

3182
02:09:52,629 --> 02:09:51,760
again was both a witness

3183
02:09:54,550 --> 02:09:52,639
and

3184
02:09:57,189 --> 02:09:54,560
part of the establishment in terms of

3185
02:09:59,589 --> 02:09:57,199
this case and there is no question in my

3186
02:10:01,430 --> 02:09:59,599
mind any more than my

3187
02:10:02,229 --> 02:10:01,440
pondering about nick

3188
02:10:06,629 --> 02:10:02,239
that

3189
02:10:07,750 --> 02:10:06,639
regard to my co-author has been

3190
02:10:11,189 --> 02:10:07,760
influenced

3191
02:10:13,510 --> 02:10:11,199
higher up the food chain it's not purely

3192
02:10:16,790 --> 02:10:13,520
something that you know he puts forward

3193
02:10:18,470 --> 02:10:16,800
without any impetus let's get on with

3194
02:10:20,709 --> 02:10:18,480
another segment of the show with peter

3195
02:10:25,350 --> 02:10:20,719
robbins gene and chris you're in the

3196
02:10:29,910 --> 02:10:27,350
you're listening to gcn proudly

3197
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announcement is for business owners and

3273
02:13:46,629 --> 02:13:43,920
leaders of organizations who've been

3274
02:13:48,629 --> 02:13:46,639
waiting for the right time to build

3275
02:13:50,629 --> 02:13:48,639
general steel has made it impossible to

3276
02:13:52,870 --> 02:13:50,639
wait any longer with rock bottom prices

3277
02:13:55,030 --> 02:13:52,880
that could save you thousands that's

3278
02:13:57,189 --> 02:13:55,040
right general steele america's leader in

3279
02:13:59,109 --> 02:13:57,199
pre-engineered structures is offering

3280
02:14:01,589 --> 02:13:59,119
buildings at prices you will never see

3281
02:14:03,270 --> 02:14:01,599
again don't miss these prices a fifty by

3282
02:14:04,950 --> 02:14:03,280
one hundred for thirty five thousand

3283
02:14:06,390 --> 02:14:04,960
dollars you heard right that's five

3284
02:14:08,229 --> 02:14:06,400
thousand square feet for thirty five

3285
02:14:10,629 --> 02:14:08,239
thousand dollars manufacturers if you

3286
02:14:13,350 --> 02:14:10,639
need a larger building try a 100 by 100

3287
02:14:15,109 --> 02:14:13,360
commercial building for 129 000 you

3288
02:14:17,350 --> 02:14:15,119
can't afford to rent with these prices

3289
02:14:19,270 --> 02:14:17,360
imagine a 70 by 100 foot church building

3290
02:14:21,350 --> 02:14:19,280
for under 69 000

3291
02:14:23,589 --> 02:14:21,360
with the economy improving and interest

3292
02:14:27,830 --> 02:14:23,599
rates still at historic lows you can't

3293
02:14:31,750 --> 02:14:27,840
afford to wait so call 866 91 steel lock

3294
02:14:41,270 --> 02:14:31,760
in your price now call 866 91 steel

3295
02:14:45,830 --> 02:14:43,750
this is jerome clark author of the ufo

3296
02:14:48,250 --> 02:14:45,840
encyclopedia in other books you're

3297
02:14:54,709 --> 02:14:48,260
listening to the peercast

3298
02:14:59,270 --> 02:14:57,109
okay so we're going to

3299
02:15:01,750 --> 02:14:59,280
depend on you to set this up

3300
02:15:04,229 --> 02:15:01,760
larry warren john burroughs peter

3301
02:15:06,149 --> 02:15:04,239
robbins on the power cast peter

3302
02:15:11,189 --> 02:15:06,159
you've got your assignment should you

3303
02:15:12,229 --> 02:15:11,199
decide to accept it and this message

3304
02:15:13,430 --> 02:15:12,239
john

3305
02:15:16,790 --> 02:15:13,440
although

3306
02:15:18,709 --> 02:15:16,800
i think he agrees with

3307
02:15:19,510 --> 02:15:18,719
my work overall

3308
02:15:21,750 --> 02:15:19,520
and

3309
02:15:23,350 --> 02:15:21,760
he initiated a facebook friendship some

3310
02:15:25,830 --> 02:15:23,360
months ago which you know might not

3311
02:15:27,030 --> 02:15:25,840
sound like a big deal but was in that it

3312
02:15:29,669 --> 02:15:27,040
was something that would have never

3313
02:15:32,149 --> 02:15:29,679
happened before his sort of game change

3314
02:15:34,709 --> 02:15:32,159
but i even at the very beginning of the

3315
02:15:36,790 --> 02:15:34,719
book i come down very hard on john and

3316
02:15:39,350 --> 02:15:36,800
it is literally always

3317
02:15:42,310 --> 02:15:39,360
because of statements that he makes

3318
02:15:45,910 --> 02:15:42,320
about larry before he kind of crossed

3319
02:15:48,550 --> 02:15:45,920
over into larry's territory and became

3320
02:15:51,750 --> 02:15:48,560
friends and colleagues where he said

3321
02:15:55,189 --> 02:15:51,760
things that were incredibly inaccurate

3322
02:15:57,430 --> 02:15:55,199
mean-spirited mocking and sarcastic and

3323
02:15:59,830 --> 02:15:57,440
i include many of them in the book and

3324
02:16:01,430 --> 02:15:59,840
call him on them and i think

3325
02:16:04,069 --> 02:16:01,440
understandably there's some hurt

3326
02:16:06,229 --> 02:16:04,079
feelings here i think you guys would be

3327
02:16:09,430 --> 02:16:06,239
better um at

3328
02:16:12,149 --> 02:16:09,440
approaching john right now than me or

3329
02:16:14,709 --> 02:16:12,159
larry would i'll certainly be happy to

3330
02:16:16,790 --> 02:16:14,719
contact larry and find out if he'd want

3331
02:16:19,270 --> 02:16:16,800
to do the show and invite john

3332
02:16:21,750 --> 02:16:19,280
and if it's okay with john of course i'd

3333
02:16:23,910 --> 02:16:21,760
be glad to be a guest on the show as

3334
02:16:26,550 --> 02:16:23,920
well you know again we're dealing with

3335
02:16:29,030 --> 02:16:26,560
very human issues here as well as the

3336
02:16:31,350 --> 02:16:29,040
most important damn case that i've ever

3337
02:16:32,389 --> 02:16:31,360
been involved in you know this is part

3338
02:16:35,110 --> 02:16:32,399
and parcel

3339
02:16:38,150 --> 02:16:35,120
of the ufo field in general that you

3340
02:16:39,830 --> 02:16:38,160
have backbiting ill will

3341
02:16:41,509 --> 02:16:39,840
personal attacks

3342
02:16:43,910 --> 02:16:41,519
and all of it of course gets in the way

3343
02:16:46,070 --> 02:16:43,920
of figuring out what really is going on

3344
02:16:47,750 --> 02:16:46,080
and you have people who switch sides

3345
02:16:48,790 --> 02:16:47,760
they're your friend they're not your

3346
02:16:51,110 --> 02:16:48,800
friend

3347
02:16:52,790 --> 02:16:51,120
and i've seen that in the years we've

3348
02:16:55,429 --> 02:16:52,800
had the power cast

3349
02:16:57,830 --> 02:16:55,439
we started the show in 2006.

3350
02:17:00,549 --> 02:16:57,840
it's now eight years later it's gonna be

3351
02:17:01,509 --> 02:17:00,559
nine years in just a few weeks

3352
02:17:03,190 --> 02:17:01,519
where

3353
02:17:05,509 --> 02:17:03,200
some of the people

3354
02:17:07,589 --> 02:17:05,519
that i counted on as friends

3355
02:17:08,790 --> 02:17:07,599
are no longer friends they have other

3356
02:17:10,469 --> 02:17:08,800
alignments

3357
02:17:11,910 --> 02:17:10,479
and i've seen that in the ufo field for

3358
02:17:14,309 --> 02:17:11,920
several decades

3359
02:17:17,270 --> 02:17:14,319
and with all that nonsense going on and

3360
02:17:18,709 --> 02:17:17,280
in large part it is nonsense how do we

3361
02:17:19,750 --> 02:17:18,719
get down to the mystery of this we're

3362
02:17:22,309 --> 02:17:19,760
seeing here

3363
02:17:23,910 --> 02:17:22,319
just with rendelsham a very complicated

3364
02:17:26,150 --> 02:17:23,920
series of events

3365
02:17:27,830 --> 02:17:26,160
we have different loyalties and

3366
02:17:30,709 --> 02:17:27,840
different viewpoints and now we have the

3367
02:17:31,990 --> 02:17:30,719
situation regarding nick pope and your

3368
02:17:34,790 --> 02:17:32,000
book about it

3369
02:17:37,110 --> 02:17:34,800
how do we sit together and find out

3370
02:17:39,910 --> 02:17:37,120
what's really going on because in the

3371
02:17:42,950 --> 02:17:39,920
end we're not important it's about the

3372
02:17:44,469 --> 02:17:42,960
mystery that's right that's right it

3373
02:17:47,190 --> 02:17:44,479
does have to get beyond the

3374
02:17:51,110 --> 02:17:47,200
personalities it's one of the reasons

3375
02:17:51,870 --> 02:17:51,120
where i went to such lengths to lay out

3376
02:17:56,389 --> 02:17:51,880
the

3377
02:17:58,150 --> 02:17:56,399
undeniable and laboratory confirmed

3378
02:18:02,150 --> 02:17:58,160
physical evidence

3379
02:18:04,389 --> 02:18:02,160
involved in the third night's event that

3380
02:18:07,110 --> 02:18:04,399
larry warren was involved in the

3381
02:18:08,629 --> 02:18:07,120
physical evidence surrounding that

3382
02:18:11,990 --> 02:18:08,639
encounter

3383
02:18:13,190 --> 02:18:12,000
is more and better than the entire

3384
02:18:15,750 --> 02:18:13,200
cumulative

3385
02:18:17,589 --> 02:18:15,760
other scientific evidences

3386
02:18:19,990 --> 02:18:17,599
for the whole case as far as i'm

3387
02:18:22,830 --> 02:18:20,000
concerned that have been contributed by

3388
02:18:25,349 --> 02:18:22,840
many good and decent and courageous

3389
02:18:29,589 --> 02:18:25,359
investigators and researchers over the

3390
02:18:32,469 --> 02:18:29,599
decades and very very briefly the spot

3391
02:18:36,230 --> 02:18:32,479
and i don't mean a spot near i mean the

3392
02:18:39,669 --> 02:18:36,240
exact spot that larry identified for me

3393
02:18:42,950 --> 02:18:39,679
well before our first visit to england

3394
02:18:45,030 --> 02:18:42,960
and i think my last visit in august was

3395
02:18:49,509 --> 02:18:45,040
like my 25th trip over

3396
02:18:51,509 --> 02:18:49,519
the soil that was drawn from that spot

3397
02:18:53,669 --> 02:18:51,519
and then control samples from further

3398
02:18:55,349 --> 02:18:53,679
out in the farmer's field where that

3399
02:18:57,589 --> 02:18:55,359
event happened

3400
02:18:58,549 --> 02:18:57,599
confirmed among other things the

3401
02:19:00,629 --> 02:18:58,559
following

3402
02:19:02,950 --> 02:19:00,639
that the soil

3403
02:19:05,589 --> 02:19:02,960
where this thing had sat

3404
02:19:08,709 --> 02:19:05,599
had lost its ability to

3405
02:19:11,589 --> 02:19:08,719
integrate with water and become mud

3406
02:19:13,990 --> 02:19:11,599
water literally rolled off of the soil

3407
02:19:16,870 --> 02:19:14,000
it looks very different under an

3408
02:19:18,870 --> 02:19:16,880
electron scanning microscope the color

3409
02:19:21,429 --> 02:19:18,880
of it is different to the human eye

3410
02:19:23,270 --> 02:19:21,439
although our laboratory analyst who is a

3411
02:19:25,190 --> 02:19:23,280
real person who i stay in touch with

3412
02:19:27,349 --> 02:19:25,200
even all these years later he still

3413
02:19:29,750 --> 02:19:27,359
works at a laboratory in massachusetts

3414
02:19:31,669 --> 02:19:29,760
his name is matthew moniz and he has

3415
02:19:34,070 --> 02:19:31,679
done other analysis over the years a

3416
02:19:36,389 --> 02:19:34,080
great deal now of other anomalous

3417
02:19:37,830 --> 02:19:36,399
materials associated with ufo and crop

3418
02:19:39,509 --> 02:19:37,840
circle uh

3419
02:19:41,990 --> 02:19:39,519
evidence that

3420
02:19:44,389 --> 02:19:42,000
the metallic tiny metallic particles

3421
02:19:45,990 --> 02:19:44,399
that appear in this particular soil in

3422
02:19:48,870 --> 02:19:46,000
this part of england

3423
02:19:52,150 --> 02:19:48,880
are more than four times

3424
02:19:54,630 --> 02:19:52,160
the amount in the affected area than in

3425
02:19:56,870 --> 02:19:54,640
the control samples which he could only

3426
02:19:59,670 --> 02:19:56,880
deduce the result

3427
02:20:00,630 --> 02:19:59,680
of a very powerful electromagnetic

3428
02:20:04,150 --> 02:20:00,640
effect

3429
02:20:07,270 --> 02:20:04,160
seed germination tests using affected

3430
02:20:10,070 --> 02:20:07,280
soil and control sample soils show

3431
02:20:12,870 --> 02:20:10,080
control samples the seeds that they used

3432
02:20:15,190 --> 02:20:12,880
grew at a normal rate and became just

3433
02:20:18,070 --> 02:20:15,200
what they should repeatedly in the

3434
02:20:21,429 --> 02:20:18,080
affected sample it took considerably

3435
02:20:24,950 --> 02:20:21,439
longer for the plant to come to fruition

3436
02:20:27,510 --> 02:20:24,960
and it was always his term a mutant form

3437
02:20:29,590 --> 02:20:27,520
of the original plant uh maybe more

3438
02:20:30,870 --> 02:20:29,600
dramatic than anything because this

3439
02:20:33,429 --> 02:20:30,880
occurred

3440
02:20:35,270 --> 02:20:33,439
oh five or six miles from the coast so

3441
02:20:37,510 --> 02:20:35,280
one would expect

3442
02:20:39,670 --> 02:20:37,520
a certain component of sand in the soil

3443
02:20:41,349 --> 02:20:39,680
which there certainly is in the control

3444
02:20:44,389 --> 02:20:41,359
samples it was normal

3445
02:20:45,429 --> 02:20:44,399
in the affected sample there was no

3446
02:20:48,230 --> 02:20:45,439
sand

3447
02:20:51,910 --> 02:20:48,240
it was reduced to silica an interim form

3448
02:20:55,190 --> 02:20:51,920
of glass the sand had melted at that

3449
02:20:58,710 --> 02:20:55,200
spot now superimpose upon this

3450
02:21:00,309 --> 02:20:58,720
larry's actual reaction which i recorded

3451
02:21:02,790 --> 02:21:00,319
as that

3452
02:21:04,230 --> 02:21:02,800
area came into view for him for the

3453
02:21:05,910 --> 02:21:04,240
first time since he

3454
02:21:08,950 --> 02:21:05,920
the event had occurred eight years and

3455
02:21:11,750 --> 02:21:08,960
two months earlier his reaction on

3456
02:21:14,870 --> 02:21:11,760
audiotape is

3457
02:21:18,150 --> 02:21:14,880
really very dramatic and subjected to

3458
02:21:21,270 --> 02:21:18,160
voice stress analysis shows

3459
02:21:23,110 --> 02:21:21,280
genuine emotion um also the fact that i

3460
02:21:25,590 --> 02:21:23,120
have two maps

3461
02:21:28,070 --> 02:21:25,600
that he marked the location on well

3462
02:21:31,510 --> 02:21:28,080
before we visited there one of them many

3463
02:21:34,550 --> 02:21:31,520
years before well what can i say

3464
02:21:35,590 --> 02:21:34,560
this is not anecdotal this is very

3465
02:21:36,469 --> 02:21:35,600
physical

3466
02:21:44,630 --> 02:21:36,479
and

3467
02:21:46,790 --> 02:21:44,640
event never occurred it was induced it

3468
02:21:49,429 --> 02:21:46,800
was a mental aberration it was put into

3469
02:21:52,150 --> 02:21:49,439
his head he was the manchurian candidate

3470
02:21:54,469 --> 02:21:52,160
well the irony there is that it seems

3471
02:21:56,630 --> 02:21:54,479
that jim is the one who is walking

3472
02:21:58,630 --> 02:21:56,640
around with a totally

3473
02:22:01,190 --> 02:21:58,640
false memory in his head

3474
02:22:03,429 --> 02:22:01,200
of time travelers from the future

3475
02:22:06,469 --> 02:22:03,439
choosing him among humanity

3476
02:22:08,870 --> 02:22:06,479
to give this long-coded message to and

3477
02:22:09,990 --> 02:22:08,880
the human mind is an amazing thing i

3478
02:22:12,070 --> 02:22:10,000
guess

3479
02:22:13,990 --> 02:22:12,080
under certain circumstances although i

3480
02:22:17,349 --> 02:22:14,000
don't know what they would be

3481
02:22:19,990 --> 02:22:17,359
it's not impossible for somebody 24

3482
02:22:23,030 --> 02:22:20,000
hours after they if indeed that is the

3483
02:22:26,150 --> 02:22:23,040
sequence given information

3484
02:22:28,389 --> 02:22:26,160
in terms of thousands of zeros and ones

3485
02:22:31,990 --> 02:22:28,399
in a certain order to just copy them out

3486
02:22:33,910 --> 02:22:32,000
into a notebook also a year ago october

3487
02:22:36,389 --> 02:22:33,920
charles halt who has played both sides

3488
02:22:39,510 --> 02:22:36,399
against the middle made it very clear

3489
02:22:42,710 --> 02:22:39,520
that he saw peniston's notebook quite a

3490
02:22:44,309 --> 02:22:42,720
number of times over the years and never

3491
02:22:47,030 --> 02:22:44,319
once saw

3492
02:22:50,150 --> 02:22:47,040
any pages with ones and zeros on them

3493
02:22:51,429 --> 02:22:50,160
and now they're back together again you

3494
02:22:54,389 --> 02:22:51,439
know

3495
02:22:58,230 --> 02:22:54,399
there's something very wrong here as far

3496
02:23:01,750 --> 02:22:58,240
as this whole matrix of time travel

3497
02:23:04,790 --> 02:23:01,760
claims and now that john burroughs has

3498
02:23:07,990 --> 02:23:04,800
come forward only in these past months

3499
02:23:10,550 --> 02:23:08,000
to confirm that he never saw he has no

3500
02:23:13,750 --> 02:23:10,560
memory of jim touching the craft of

3501
02:23:14,950 --> 02:23:13,760
seeing the craft and jim never told him

3502
02:23:19,750 --> 02:23:14,960
about it

3503
02:23:21,190 --> 02:23:19,760
for almost 30 years i mean i i find that

3504
02:23:23,750 --> 02:23:21,200
harder to believe

3505
02:23:26,630 --> 02:23:23,760
than some people find ufos and their

3506
02:23:28,790 --> 02:23:26,640
implications hard to believe

3507
02:23:30,790 --> 02:23:28,800
oh boy

3508
02:23:33,190 --> 02:23:30,800
i noticed that one of the photographs in

3509
02:23:35,670 --> 02:23:33,200
the uh in your new book yeah of the

3510
02:23:37,670 --> 02:23:35,680
actual spot that larry identified i mean

3511
02:23:40,630 --> 02:23:37,680
you can tell that there's some problem

3512
02:23:42,070 --> 02:23:40,640
with the soil there because uh i think i

3513
02:23:46,309 --> 02:23:42,080
forget how long afterwards it was nine

3514
02:23:49,990 --> 02:23:48,230
when when we first went out there it was

3515
02:23:52,150 --> 02:23:50,000
eight years and two months and we could

3516
02:23:55,349 --> 02:23:52,160
see a discoloration in the field on the

3517
02:23:57,670 --> 02:23:55,359
spot where it sat which larry calls to

3518
02:23:59,429 --> 02:23:57,680
attention on the audio tape that i had

3519
02:24:01,349 --> 02:23:59,439
that recorder going all the time for

3520
02:24:02,950 --> 02:24:01,359
years when we were together and then

3521
02:24:05,030 --> 02:24:02,960
saying but of course that's a

3522
02:24:07,110 --> 02:24:05,040
coincidence and the way i had trained

3523
02:24:09,270 --> 02:24:07,120
myself i didn't say oh my god a trace

3524
02:24:11,110 --> 02:24:09,280
case maybe it's more than eight years it

3525
02:24:12,950 --> 02:24:11,120
was yeah there it is a coincidence

3526
02:24:14,950 --> 02:24:12,960
pretty wild one i'll tell you what we

3527
02:24:16,710 --> 02:24:14,960
have a wild break here and then we'll

3528
02:24:19,110 --> 02:24:16,720
get back with more wild stuff in our

3529
02:24:25,590 --> 02:24:19,120
final segment with peter robbins and

3530
02:24:29,910 --> 02:24:27,110
not just an alternative to the

3531
02:24:33,910 --> 02:24:29,920
mainstream media we're the premier

3532
02:24:35,590 --> 02:24:33,920
independent talk radio network we are g

3533
02:24:37,670 --> 02:24:35,600
c n

3534
02:24:39,990 --> 02:24:37,680
attack of the rockoids has been well

3535
02:24:41,590 --> 02:24:40,000
received by critics and readers alike

3536
02:24:43,030 --> 02:24:41,600
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

3537
02:24:44,950 --> 02:24:43,040
never forget

3538
02:24:47,429 --> 02:24:44,960
a former u.s military intelligence

3539
02:24:49,990 --> 02:24:47,439
officer is haunted by intense dreams

3540
02:24:52,309 --> 02:24:50,000
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

3541
02:24:53,429 --> 02:24:52,319
help after a terrible battle in outer

3542
02:24:55,590 --> 02:24:53,439
space

3543
02:24:57,510 --> 02:24:55,600
but the dreams turn out to be true and

3544
02:25:00,230 --> 02:24:57,520
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

3545
02:25:02,710 --> 02:25:00,240
with a woman whose far away planet is

3546
02:25:05,110 --> 02:25:02,720
intent on destroying the earth

3547
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3610
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3631
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hello this is rosemary ellen guiley and

3632
02:28:48,650 --> 02:28:45,680
you're listening to the paracast the

3633
02:28:57,190 --> 02:28:48,660
gold standard of paranormal radio

3634
02:29:01,910 --> 02:28:59,190
peter robbins joins us with gene and

3635
02:29:03,990 --> 02:29:01,920
chris in the power cast and he has a

3636
02:29:05,590 --> 02:29:04,000
free e-book for you to download and

3637
02:29:06,830 --> 02:29:05,600
we're going to have the links that are

3638
02:29:09,190 --> 02:29:06,840
forum at

3639
02:29:11,349 --> 02:29:09,200
forum.thepowercast.com and on our site

3640
02:29:12,790 --> 02:29:11,359
so you can check it out or check out

3641
02:29:14,990 --> 02:29:12,800
phenomena magazine it's called

3642
02:29:17,910 --> 02:29:15,000
deliberate deception a case of

3643
02:29:19,910 --> 02:29:17,920
disinformation in the ufo research

3644
02:29:21,429 --> 02:29:19,920
community well let me just first

3645
02:29:23,830 --> 02:29:21,439
conclude the thought from our previous

3646
02:29:26,870 --> 02:29:23,840
section which is you're absolutely right

3647
02:29:30,550 --> 02:29:26,880
that photographic series that i took in

3648
02:29:33,990 --> 02:29:30,560
june of 1990 so we're now nine and a

3649
02:29:36,630 --> 02:29:34,000
half years after where you see an entire

3650
02:29:39,750 --> 02:29:36,640
field that's gone fallow it's hay it's

3651
02:29:42,950 --> 02:29:39,760
yellow except for on that exact same

3652
02:29:44,870 --> 02:29:42,960
large oval spot it is bright green how

3653
02:29:48,630 --> 02:29:44,880
is that possible well it verifies the

3654
02:29:50,630 --> 02:29:48,640
laboratory results it took longer for

3655
02:29:54,150 --> 02:29:50,640
things to come to fruition in that

3656
02:29:56,630 --> 02:29:54,160
affected area and even that long after

3657
02:29:59,190 --> 02:29:56,640
and i have to say i went back again the

3658
02:30:02,309 --> 02:29:59,200
next year this time after consulting

3659
02:30:05,270 --> 02:30:02,319
with the laboratory i went back with two

3660
02:30:07,830 --> 02:30:05,280
court containers carefully labeled i

3661
02:30:09,590 --> 02:30:07,840
collected soil from the affected area

3662
02:30:11,429 --> 02:30:09,600
from the edge control samples from out

3663
02:30:13,830 --> 02:30:11,439
in the field and then had the unique

3664
02:30:16,870 --> 02:30:13,840
experience of bringing in 15 or 20

3665
02:30:19,670 --> 02:30:16,880
pounds of dirt from a ufo labeled site

3666
02:30:22,550 --> 02:30:19,680
through security at jfk airport which

3667
02:30:25,270 --> 02:30:22,560
was very entertaining in retrospect

3668
02:30:28,070 --> 02:30:25,280
excuse me mr robbins what's in the jars

3669
02:30:30,309 --> 02:30:28,080
oh my exactly um i had to declare it it

3670
02:30:32,950 --> 02:30:30,319
said soil i thought no i'm not gonna and

3671
02:30:34,389 --> 02:30:32,960
then i thought damn if i don't somebody

3672
02:30:35,750 --> 02:30:34,399
is going to call me on this a better

3673
02:30:37,429 --> 02:30:35,760
researcher is going to get into the

3674
02:30:39,030 --> 02:30:37,439
state department's records they're going

3675
02:30:40,630 --> 02:30:39,040
to see that i committed a felony i

3676
02:30:42,790 --> 02:30:40,640
brought dirt in illegally i could have

3677
02:30:46,230 --> 02:30:42,800
poisoned all the crops in america i've

3678
02:30:48,790 --> 02:30:46,240
got to check it and the official he just

3679
02:30:51,190 --> 02:30:48,800
you know what took me to a little room

3680
02:30:53,429 --> 02:30:51,200
what is this for oh it's for a book i'm

3681
02:30:54,950 --> 02:30:53,439
researching what do you mean oh it's

3682
02:30:56,150 --> 02:30:54,960
something that has to do with something

3683
02:30:57,830 --> 02:30:56,160
that happened to my co-author what

3684
02:30:59,750 --> 02:30:57,840
happened to your co-author back and

3685
02:31:02,469 --> 02:30:59,760
forth back and forth until i finally

3686
02:31:04,630 --> 02:31:02,479
just had to say oh well he feels that he

3687
02:31:06,870 --> 02:31:04,640
was involved some kind of ufo thank you

3688
02:31:09,110 --> 02:31:06,880
very much me and my dirt are locked in

3689
02:31:13,030 --> 02:31:09,120
the room for a series of minutes he

3690
02:31:15,030 --> 02:31:13,040
returns with three other security people

3691
02:31:18,150 --> 02:31:15,040
this was before they called it the tsa i

3692
02:31:20,389 --> 02:31:18,160
forget talking about 94 or so and

3693
02:31:23,750 --> 02:31:20,399
they're all business they peer at the

3694
02:31:25,910 --> 02:31:23,760
containers and the lead guy says tell us

3695
02:31:27,910 --> 02:31:25,920
quote unquote i look at him and i said

3696
02:31:29,429 --> 02:31:27,920
tell you what he said tell us the story

3697
02:31:32,150 --> 02:31:29,439
about the ufo

3698
02:31:33,750 --> 02:31:32,160
and 15 minutes later good luck to you

3699
02:31:35,270 --> 02:31:33,760
and larry the name of the book is you

3700
02:31:37,510 --> 02:31:35,280
left at east gate we'll be looking out

3701
02:31:39,270 --> 02:31:37,520
for it and the final question before i

3702
02:31:41,830 --> 02:31:39,280
left was you're not going to open this

3703
02:31:43,590 --> 02:31:41,840
are you and i immediately visualized him

3704
02:31:46,150 --> 02:31:43,600
seeing all the martian germs escaping

3705
02:31:48,309 --> 02:31:46,160
into jfk airport no no it's going out

3706
02:31:50,230 --> 02:31:48,319
fedex tomorrow and so it did and the

3707
02:31:52,389 --> 02:31:50,240
results are now published but

3708
02:31:54,550 --> 02:31:52,399
that was entertaining again as they say

3709
02:31:56,469 --> 02:31:54,560
in retrospect not when it was happening

3710
02:31:58,389 --> 02:31:56,479
well you see right now what would happen

3711
02:32:01,990 --> 02:31:58,399
peter is they'd say first take off your

3712
02:32:07,590 --> 02:32:05,349
ah yeah i guess they might and assume

3713
02:32:09,750 --> 02:32:07,600
the position it's been a long strange

3714
02:32:12,710 --> 02:32:09,760
trip but i'll tell you what it is a

3715
02:32:14,790 --> 02:32:12,720
privilege to be involved in this work

3716
02:32:16,950 --> 02:32:14,800
i think we're all doing our best here to

3717
02:32:20,230 --> 02:32:16,960
do important work and to get to the

3718
02:32:21,270 --> 02:32:20,240
bottom of the most abiding mystery since

3719
02:32:23,429 --> 02:32:21,280
whenever

3720
02:32:26,230 --> 02:32:23,439
there is an array of forces against us

3721
02:32:29,190 --> 02:32:26,240
doing everything it can to make us look

3722
02:32:30,950 --> 02:32:29,200
like outsiders or mystics or crazy

3723
02:32:32,469 --> 02:32:30,960
people or people who want to feel

3724
02:32:34,870 --> 02:32:32,479
special that's always been one of my

3725
02:32:37,510 --> 02:32:34,880
favorites and so on and we're fighting a

3726
02:32:40,070 --> 02:32:37,520
good fight here and doing our best but

3727
02:32:42,389 --> 02:32:40,080
boy the wrenches keep coming at us oh

3728
02:32:44,710 --> 02:32:42,399
yeah ain't that the truth i know i know

3729
02:32:47,110 --> 02:32:44,720
the feeling i i mean i worked 20 years

3730
02:32:49,270 --> 02:32:47,120
on my last book that just came out and

3731
02:32:51,990 --> 02:32:49,280
you know solid 18 months of writing and

3732
02:32:53,670 --> 02:32:52,000
and it's like thank you very much uh

3733
02:32:55,429 --> 02:32:53,680
what else you're working on

3734
02:32:58,070 --> 02:32:55,439
by the way chris i think it has uh one

3735
02:32:59,910 --> 02:32:58,080
of the most brilliant covers i have seen

3736
02:33:02,950 --> 02:32:59,920
in a long time

3737
02:33:04,070 --> 02:33:02,960
it is a knockout and i'm sorry that you

3738
02:33:06,630 --> 02:33:04,080
disappeared

3739
02:33:08,389 --> 02:33:06,640
i know i felt so bad having to leave i

3740
02:33:11,830 --> 02:33:08,399
really wanted to hang around and it was

3741
02:33:13,750 --> 02:33:11,840
a very fascinating talk man and i i will

3742
02:33:17,750 --> 02:33:13,760
read that book but i want to get it from

3743
02:33:18,790 --> 02:33:17,760
you okay oh you you got one you got one

3744
02:33:20,389 --> 02:33:18,800
yeah

3745
02:33:22,870 --> 02:33:20,399
here's a question here before we lose

3746
02:33:24,469 --> 02:33:22,880
you peter uh this is a good question

3747
02:33:26,950 --> 02:33:24,479
you know we've been skirting around this

3748
02:33:29,030 --> 02:33:26,960
issue of the possibility of of

3749
02:33:30,950 --> 02:33:29,040
disinformation uh coming from highly

3750
02:33:33,590 --> 02:33:30,960
placed sources within uh within the

3751
02:33:36,309 --> 02:33:33,600
government uh in this case nick pope

3752
02:33:38,389 --> 02:33:36,319
possibly in in the uk but a question

3753
02:33:39,070 --> 02:33:38,399
here from namor who's one of our posters

3754
02:33:41,270 --> 02:33:39,080
at

3755
02:33:43,349 --> 02:33:41,280
forum.paracast.com he's wondering

3756
02:33:45,110 --> 02:33:43,359
if government disinformation campaigns

3757
02:33:46,630 --> 02:33:45,120
in the ufo field are designed for

3758
02:33:48,630 --> 02:33:46,640
counter intelligence against other

3759
02:33:50,710 --> 02:33:48,640
countries are they also used for other

3760
02:33:53,110 --> 02:33:50,720
purposes too such as a form of social

3761
02:33:55,510 --> 02:33:53,120
engineering to influence populations

3762
02:33:57,349 --> 02:33:55,520
toward a specific agenda and do these

3763
02:33:59,190 --> 02:33:57,359
black propaganda campaigns have more

3764
02:34:00,630 --> 02:33:59,200
than one function i think that's a

3765
02:34:03,429 --> 02:34:00,640
really interesting question and this

3766
02:34:05,910 --> 02:34:03,439
might be a really a good example of how

3767
02:34:07,349 --> 02:34:05,920
that possibility could actually exist

3768
02:34:10,309 --> 02:34:07,359
well i agree with you i think it's an

3769
02:34:12,309 --> 02:34:10,319
outstanding question and i'd be naive if

3770
02:34:14,790 --> 02:34:12,319
i suggested that i didn't think it was

3771
02:34:16,790 --> 02:34:14,800
the case of course it's a possibility

3772
02:34:20,550 --> 02:34:16,800
and a good one and why not take

3773
02:34:23,349 --> 02:34:20,560
advantage of this incredibly loaded

3774
02:34:26,630 --> 02:34:23,359
subject which a percentage of probably

3775
02:34:29,670 --> 02:34:26,640
every national population is fascinated

3776
02:34:30,630 --> 02:34:29,680
by if not obsessed with if not dedicated

3777
02:34:33,830 --> 02:34:30,640
to

3778
02:34:36,150 --> 02:34:33,840
or

3779
02:34:38,469 --> 02:34:36,160
create a situation they can study and

3780
02:34:40,550 --> 02:34:38,479
calibrate which of course bureaucrats

3781
02:34:42,950 --> 02:34:40,560
love you know i find it very interesting

3782
02:34:45,270 --> 02:34:42,960
that that academia absolutely has

3783
02:34:46,630 --> 02:34:45,280
blinders on for the most part even if

3784
02:34:48,389 --> 02:34:46,640
for instance just to give you a for

3785
02:34:51,030 --> 02:34:48,399
instance even if the cattle mutilation

3786
02:34:53,190 --> 02:34:51,040
mystery is total a non-issue that it's

3787
02:34:55,990 --> 02:34:53,200
all let's say scavenger action and

3788
02:34:58,389 --> 02:34:56,000
misidentified natural lasers

3789
02:34:59,750 --> 02:34:58,399
the fact that people believe it should

3790
02:35:01,190 --> 02:34:59,760
have already

3791
02:35:03,110 --> 02:35:01,200
i would think people should have turned

3792
02:35:05,670 --> 02:35:03,120
out many doctoral dissertations in

3793
02:35:08,630 --> 02:35:05,680
sociology examining the belief in a

3794
02:35:10,150 --> 02:35:08,640
particular mystery and in this case uh

3795
02:35:12,389 --> 02:35:10,160
one that has you know thousands of

3796
02:35:14,230 --> 02:35:12,399
pounds of physical evidence left behind

3797
02:35:16,550 --> 02:35:14,240
and yet we don't see a single doctoral

3798
02:35:20,230 --> 02:35:16,560
thesis uh in in that you know why it's

3799
02:35:24,070 --> 02:35:20,240
fear of ridicule plain and simple i did

3800
02:35:27,030 --> 02:35:24,080
my own study years ago on the origins of

3801
02:35:30,950 --> 02:35:27,040
the ridicule factor and i spent

3802
02:35:32,870 --> 02:35:30,960
uncharted amounts of time going into the

3803
02:35:35,830 --> 02:35:32,880
newspaper morgue of the new york times

3804
02:35:38,469 --> 02:35:35,840
this is all pre-digital i i found and

3805
02:35:41,510 --> 02:35:38,479
printed out every single article

3806
02:35:43,750 --> 02:35:41,520
editorial political cartoon commentary

3807
02:35:45,510 --> 02:35:43,760
letter to the editor that had ever been

3808
02:35:47,670 --> 02:35:45,520
published by the new york times on this

3809
02:35:50,550 --> 02:35:47,680
subject i completed the project years

3810
02:35:52,309 --> 02:35:50,560
later digitally and i'm the only person

3811
02:35:54,630 --> 02:35:52,319
that you will probably ever meet that

3812
02:35:57,349 --> 02:35:54,640
has read every one of them in order

3813
02:36:00,150 --> 02:35:57,359
repeatedly to deduce a pattern of

3814
02:36:04,230 --> 02:36:00,160
reportage and it hit the ground running

3815
02:36:06,309 --> 02:36:04,240
in early july of 1947 it was as the

3816
02:36:07,910 --> 02:36:06,319
flagship newspaper of the western world

3817
02:36:10,870 --> 02:36:07,920
it was picked up by the other print

3818
02:36:14,070 --> 02:36:10,880
journalists and by broadcast journalists

3819
02:36:17,110 --> 02:36:14,080
again at the time abc nbc cbs

3820
02:36:20,309 --> 02:36:17,120
and that ridicule factor remains

3821
02:36:23,830 --> 02:36:20,319
incredibly powerful for what it's worth

3822
02:36:27,990 --> 02:36:23,840
i observed that now today

3823
02:36:30,870 --> 02:36:28,000
more and more people care less and less

3824
02:36:33,429 --> 02:36:30,880
about what other people think about what

3825
02:36:35,590 --> 02:36:33,439
they think about the ufo phenomena but

3826
02:36:37,990 --> 02:36:35,600
it's still changing one two seven people

3827
02:36:40,469 --> 02:36:38,000
at a time it's not some mass movement

3828
02:36:42,070 --> 02:36:40,479
and short a v type scenario where we

3829
02:36:45,190 --> 02:36:42,080
wake up in the morning and they're a

3830
02:36:47,110 --> 02:36:45,200
giant honking mile across you know ufos

3831
02:36:50,630 --> 02:36:47,120
over the 60 biggest cities in the world

3832
02:36:52,790 --> 02:36:50,640
game over i can't imagine we are never

3833
02:36:55,030 --> 02:36:52,800
going to disclose what we know our

3834
02:36:58,230 --> 02:36:55,040
country is so dedicated to keeping the

3835
02:37:00,230 --> 02:36:58,240
secrets in part because to admit it

3836
02:37:02,389 --> 02:37:00,240
would be to admit that every american

3837
02:37:04,389 --> 02:37:02,399
president even symbolically in their

3838
02:37:06,389 --> 02:37:04,399
roles be they on the left right

3839
02:37:08,710 --> 02:37:06,399
conservative democrat is an unindicted

3840
02:37:10,710 --> 02:37:08,720
co-conspirator in the greatest lie of

3841
02:37:12,550 --> 02:37:10,720
all times and they are more loyal to

3842
02:37:14,070 --> 02:37:12,560
themselves than they are to us

3843
02:37:15,590 --> 02:37:14,080
peter robbins please tell our listeners

3844
02:37:16,630 --> 02:37:15,600
where they can find more of the things

3845
02:37:19,190 --> 02:37:16,640
that you do

3846
02:37:21,910 --> 02:37:19,200
right now a new website is being built

3847
02:37:25,270 --> 02:37:21,920
but for any of your listeners who are on

3848
02:37:27,510 --> 02:37:25,280
facebook friend me there i post every

3849
02:37:29,590 --> 02:37:27,520
thing that i'm doing including great

3850
02:37:31,349 --> 02:37:29,600
radio interviews like this and we will

3851
02:37:32,389 --> 02:37:31,359
let folks know as soon as this is ready

3852
02:37:33,830 --> 02:37:32,399
to broadcast

3853
02:37:36,230 --> 02:37:33,840
i try to keep up with all my

3854
02:37:37,830 --> 02:37:36,240
correspondence even if i'm slow look for

3855
02:37:39,990 --> 02:37:37,840
me at a conference near you in the not

3856
02:37:41,990 --> 02:37:40,000
too distant future you can also find

3857
02:37:44,150 --> 02:37:42,000
more of the things we do especially our

3858
02:37:47,349 --> 02:37:44,160
new premium service

3859
02:37:50,550 --> 02:37:47,359
at plus.the

3860
02:37:55,990 --> 02:37:53,429
if you sign up five bucks a month 50 a

3861
02:37:57,429 --> 02:37:56,000
year you get an ad free version of the

3862
02:38:01,830 --> 02:37:57,439
powercast

3863
02:38:04,150 --> 02:38:01,840
and a new exclusive podcast called after

3864
02:38:07,510 --> 02:38:04,160
the paracast so you'll hear more

3865
02:38:09,429 --> 02:38:07,520
commentary about this episode wow you

3866
02:38:11,349 --> 02:38:09,439
certainly will we're going to be doing

3867
02:38:14,309 --> 02:38:11,359
that and it's going to be fascinating

3868
02:38:15,150 --> 02:38:14,319
and only available to people who sign up

3869
02:38:17,630 --> 02:38:15,160
for

3870
02:38:19,429 --> 02:38:17,640
paracastplus at

3871
02:38:21,750 --> 02:38:19,439
plus.theparacast.com chris o'brien's

3872
02:38:23,510 --> 02:38:21,760
site is ourstrangeplanet.com

3873
02:38:26,309 --> 02:38:23,520
and by the way we're giving away a free

3874
02:38:29,030 --> 02:38:26,319
copy of chris o'brien's secrets of the

3875
02:38:30,550 --> 02:38:29,040
mysterious valley to sign up for the

3876
02:38:32,150 --> 02:38:30,560
power cast newsletter at the

3877
02:38:34,469 --> 02:38:32,160
powercast.com

3878
02:38:36,710 --> 02:38:34,479
peter robbins thanks for joining us on

3879
02:38:38,710 --> 02:38:36,720
the power cast it was a pleasure being

3880
02:38:40,230 --> 02:38:38,720
on the air with you and for anybody that

3881
02:38:42,230 --> 02:38:40,240
would like to know more about my work

3882
02:38:44,790 --> 02:38:42,240
just go to youtube google my name with

3883
02:38:54,389 --> 02:38:44,800
the word the letters ufo and you'll get

3884
02:39:00,150 --> 02:38:57,270
the powercast featuring jean steinberg

3885
02:39:03,190 --> 02:39:00,160
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

3886
02:39:04,870 --> 02:39:03,200
presentation of making the impossible

3887
02:39:09,030 --> 02:39:04,880
incorporated

3888
02:39:10,870 --> 02:39:09,040
tune in next week for a new adventure in